https://cyborganthropology.com/index.php?action=history&feed=atom&title=H%2B_Elbow_Life_and_Youth_Extension 2026-04-22T12:19:55Z Revision history for this page on the wiki MediaWiki 1.45.3 https://cyborganthropology.com/index.php?title=H%2B_Elbow_Life_and_Youth_Extension&diff=2486&oldid=prev 2011-01-24T21:40:36Z

<p>Created page with &#039;==Main Topics== *Issues of individual life extension versus available to all, who would chose it and why *We will have the tech, but we’ll also need the mental ability to handl…&#039;</p> <p><b>New page</b></p><div>==Main Topics==<br /> *Issues of individual life extension versus available to all, who would chose it and why<br /> *We will have the tech, but we’ll also need the mental ability to handle it<br /> *Difference between avoiding death and questing for life<br /> *Issues of natural selection, having children (timing, serial monogamy, reasoning, etc)<br /> *Longer lives through biological improvements, mechanical integration, overlap, etc<br /> *Sustainability: Nature, population density, mortality rates, closed systems<br /> *Cryonics, and social implications as well as mental; knowledge being temporally dependant<br /> *Life extension versus Youth Extension (mental and physical abilities)<br /> *Dedication of time, how having more time might (or might not) affect that<br /> *Perception of time and relationships is pulling away from a linear model<br /> <br /> ==Introductions==<br /> Rob: researching a creative writing project<br /> <br /> Chris: into today’s topic<br /> <br /> Gabriel: general topic as a whole<br /> <br /> Lady: stumbled upon it<br /> <br /> Victor: into this topic for a long time<br /> <br /> Cameron: really good at procrastinating<br /> <br /> Brian: likes different people’s perspectives<br /> <br /> Sarah: here to spread illegal child-like joy<br /> <br /> Libby: has a problem, because she’s always around Bloo<br /> <br /> Kevin: fresh to the area<br /> <br /> Baron: enjoys interesting topics with interesting people<br /> <br /> ==Minutes==<br /> 1:38 Willow defers to someone else because she’s a cynic; “many who long for immortality don’t know what to do on a rainy day;” would like to go for as long as possible at this rate<br /> <br /> 2:58 want it for yourself but not for anyone else<br /> <br /> 3:00 don’t want it for self unless it’s available to everyone else; therapy not advancement<br /> <br /> 3:18 people who don’t use what they have now will likely fade when they have more time; takes desire to do things in order to want to live longer; who deserves it isn’t an issue, people who don’t use that extra time will just fade away<br /> <br /> 4:20 will it be distributed on will or on financial ability?<br /> <br /> 4:41 living for a really long time develops a complex mental state, we’re not built to deal with everything around you falling apart; it’s a psycho-social issue, not necessarily the chemical-science-ability one; the issue is being willing to see cities die, etc<br /> <br /> 6:04 major challenge is psychological<br /> <br /> 6:10 Heinlan’s book with Lazarus Long, being bored because you’ve done everything<br /> <br /> 6:37 we missed the dinosaurs, what would happen in another million years? Curious to see future<br /> <br /> 7:17 we’re constantly surrounded by the fantastic, manage to make it commonplace; if you’re bored then you’re bored, it doesn’t matter how long you’re around<br /> <br /> 8:07 so some people just aren’t going to bother<br /> <br /> 8:13 who would raise their hands to die tomorrow?<br /> <br /> 8:24 different death background, don’t necessarily *want* to die tomorrow, but others don’t necessarily fear it in the same way, not necessarily a good question<br /> <br /> 9:08 if you could choose to die at any point, why would you chose tomorrow instead of hundreds of years in the future? Cancer kills 25%, Heart disease another 25%<br /> <br /> 9:30 so is it avoiding death or questing for life?<br /> <br /> 9:34 quest for life, we’re so much closer now to curing these issues than we were further in the past<br /> <br /> 10:02 but something like prostate cancer will hit every male eventually; we’re yey close to curing x problem, given enough time; it’s not necessarily an issue of curing everything; the future is not magical fairy land, it’s a constant process<br /> <br /> 11:04 what about the Singularity, and living through that?<br /> <br /> 11:12 we’ll talk about the Singularity at another meeting<br /> <br /> Singularity digression<br /> <br /> 13:55 living forever removes you from natural selection<br /> <br /> 14:18 any system where we mess with it, if there are errors they tend to build up until they crush whatever’s going on; which is to say, it’s not living forever, it’s continuing to live<br /> <br /> 14:47 all we’ve ever done is remove a cause of death, we can treat the symptoms; there’s an idea of a Wall of Death : chances of death do not grow exponentially as we have thought<br /> <br /> 15:54 after you hit the late eighties your estimated life span actually increases<br /> <br /> 16:07 we’re curing more causes of death, there will always be accidents which cause death or something like it; which I believe removes the psychological issue of death; a process of lengthening life, it’s not going to be our generation, it’s going to be generations down the road, each generation living longer and subsequently waiting longer to have children<br /> <br /> 17:37 serial monogamy, not just one set of kids with one person<br /> <br /> 17:53 is living preserving conscious memories? Because that determines what a cause of death is<br /> <br /> 18:06 what is life? People who live through their children or books they wrote or whatever, different ways to describe immortality; what is you, and how do you preserve that?<br /> <br /> 18:45 think it will be possible to upload in at least some vague form before we are dead<br /> <br /> 18:51 so we have the tech now to add 10 years on to your life, and in that time tech comes out to add another 10<br /> <br /> 19:05 but you’ve degraded in that time and it might not be applicable to you<br /> <br /> 19:10 if you can add years faster than you’re degrading…<br /> <br /> 19:20 the tech we come up with now, we have life extension tech now; the people that jump on these things pick up the alpha-release technology; these are notorious for being buggy, which is tough enough to deal with on a computer, but what about if you’re messing with biology? It’s not a smooth-grade curve, it’s a shuddering stepping curve while we sometimes scrap everything<br /> <br /> 20:49 cochlear implants as an example of once you’re installed with hardware it’s not removable, which only allows for software upgrades, which can’t necessarily be planned for; are we advancing through hardware or biologically? Or overlap, of course<br /> <br /> 22:07 used to be all about the hardware but hardware can’t learn as opposed to biological systems which adapt to surroundings<br /> <br /> 22:55 but we have evolving software systems; we can match amoebas in evolving abilities, so when you take that into nanotechnology<br /> <br /> 23:24 biology runs on proteins which are self-replicating, but building a chip is still incredibly difficult<br /> <br /> 23:50 but we’re engineering biological things to create computery-type stuff; e-coli making plastic, bacterial processing, etc<br /> <br /> 24:11 but then is it hardware or biology?<br /> <br /> 24:15 there isn’t a difference<br /> <br /> 24:32 population issues<br /> <br /> 24:52 nature tends to deal with over population when it happens<br /> <br /> 25:01 higher density cities also often have a lower mortality rate; death tends to be associated with poverty<br /> <br /> 25:17 we haven’t hit max population density on this planet, but within a closed system it’s not sustainable<br /> <br /> 25:46 but some places have a negative population growth, considered to go with a wellness of society<br /> <br /> 26:13 but bacteria self-replicates every 30 seconds, there are different levels of population<br /> <br /> 26:23 bacteria also stop when they don’t have room any more<br /> <br /> 26:28 we’re also assuming this is a closed system, which it isn’t, we can go somewhere else<br /> <br /> 26:44 which we should<br /> <br /> 26:46 or when we have uploading<br /> <br /> 27:04 cryonics is also a stop-gap thing<br /> <br /> 27:16 cryonics have never worked<br /> <br /> you can freeze a dog and bring it back after three minutes<br /> <br /> yeah, three minutes.<br /> <br /> 27:32 also the human factor; if there are already so many people on the planet, why would we bring them back?<br /> <br /> Culture shock, Transmet stuff<br /> <br /> 28:02 even if there is social responsibility to bring someone back, that’s where the responsibility stops; more life or more of anything is not really going to change the fact that fresh fruit is better than frozen fruit<br /> <br /> 28:33 reheating people for lunch<br /> <br /> digression<br /> <br /> 29:25 great thinkers are defined by their point in time; temporily dependant<br /> <br /> digression<br /> <br /> 30:02 &#039;&#039;&#039;end part 1&#039;&#039;&#039;<br /> <br /> 0:00 life extension and youth extension<br /> <br /> 0:11 what’s the difference?<br /> <br /> 0:16 as you age, you become more decrepit; lose physical and mental abilities<br /> <br /> 0:37 but true life extension is prolonging life in a way that is useful<br /> <br /> 0:51 most of what has happened with life extension so far has not tacked on what one might consider youth<br /> <br /> 1:25 telemetric limit, 24-28 year old point when reproduction of DNA<br /> <br /> 1:54 cancer cells get around that<br /> <br /> 2:03 defining your youth through telemetric abilities<br /> <br /> 2:23 individual basis of when youth is<br /> <br /> 2:36 a brilliant mind trapped in a useless body is useless<br /> <br /> Steven Hawking?<br /> <br /> Still has enough to get it out there<br /> <br /> Well what’s useless then?<br /> <br /> 3:01 prone to separation of mind and body which is not necessarily true<br /> <br /> 4:24 if you could adjust your chemistry, we have regenerative medicine now, can redo hormone levels<br /> <br /> 5:10 mind and body aren’t separate, you can’t be an 80 year old man with a 13 year old’s hormones because those hormones radically affect psychological states; part of the reason older people have more control over themselves is they’re not awash in a tide of hormones<br /> <br /> 5:48 idea of youth extension as a term for idea of able body and mind, which is very individual, idea is being able instead of degrading<br /> <br /> 6:29 recreational drugs to recreate youth<br /> <br /> 7:00 sensible use, people have figured out what they’re good at, strengthening that; from that ability they are able to quest after they really desire; Edison<br /> <br /> 8:13 we have a separation of mind and body because we only have so much time to concentrate on each. What if time wasn’t such a restriction? When we have to chose between things, something loses; if we have the option to have enough time for everything, will we actually make the right choices?<br /> <br /> 9:09 never enough time<br /> <br /> 9:11 what are the economical factors? What happens if you have all the time in the world now? Are you going to punch in for a nine to five or will you take a vacation for a couple hundred years?<br /> <br /> 9:43 probably will work the same way it does now. Some people want to work even if they don’t have to; people who want to be on permanent vacation are already trying to do that; don’t think it has to do with available time<br /> <br /> 10:55 people who are not alienated from their jobs might enjoy working; issue of student loans; the economic and social systems we have now will evolve to encompass any extra time we have, unalienated labor will still be rare<br /> <br /> 11:30 short frantic lives, so we make the most out of what we have in what time we have; new social systems emerging due to more time<br /> <br /> 12:03 false assumption: we invent tools to save time, to extend lives, and yet our lives never seem to get less complicated or time consuming; there is no clean break between Now and Shiny Future; we have to change what we have to have the future we want<br /> <br /> 12:58 if you have the short end of the stick now, you’re going to continue having it<br /> <br /> 13:15 difficult to believe, Singularity, nanotech, AI; our problem in a few decades will be filling time<br /> <br /> 13:34 with so much more time now than in the past we still live frantic lives<br /> <br /> 13:47 slave to something different, but always a slave<br /> <br /> 14:08 reality is always nonlinear, Singularity will bring completely new things, the systems we have now won’t exist; new beginnings, new science<br /> <br /> 15:16 interesting idea, difficult to talk about until it’s here<br /> <br /> 15:43 coping is what we do as humans, socializing is the issue<br /> <br /> 16:00 Vengie? Did he say if the singularity arrived and we weren’t ready for, all we’d have is technological wealth but without value<br /> <br /> Singularity digression<br /> <br /> 16:51 it’s not an issue of if we can do it, it’s if we want to<br /> <br /> 17:16 you can plan for it too, live off planet, befriend people with similar views<br /> <br /> 17:39 the longer we’re in our lives, the more expertise you can aquire, which means more is expected, which means more schooling is expected, etc<br /> <br /> 18:00 the bar will be raised<br /> <br /> 18:10 why cynical, not a lot is going to change<br /> <br /> 18:33 very linear way of looking at it, with causality; what about new business models, we have the capacity to think about things differently; so what if the bar is raised for law school, what about a community of law<br /> <br /> 19:20 unless we work actively things aren’t going to end up that way<br /> <br /> 20:04 what about renewable and nonrenewable resources?<br /> <br /> 20:12 well look at the sun<br /> <br /> Inefficient but possible; living twice as long means consuming twice as much<br /> <br /> 21:33 we spend a lot of energy building things that destroy thing; pro genetic modification; soil sterilization example<br /> <br /> 23:12 the meme of the rapture is so widespread that people don’t care; if people gave that up we’d be a lot more efficient<br /> <br /> 23:32 in life extension there is an issue of time, people who believe time is linear in a vacuum, others believe it is based on the idea of change; time slow chamber<br /> <br /> digression<br /> <br /> 26:26 life extension only wanted by people if the people they love can live longer as well<br /> <br /> 27:12 only one person needed; not lonely, but super celebrated<br /> <br /> 27:29 think that person would break<br /> <br /> 27:55 many people can welcome people no matter what their age<br /> <br /> 28:20 FBI report that the most destructive technology would be biogenertology, living so long<br /> <br /> 28:53 that explains the FDA<br /> <br /> 29:10 the cohort feeling is an interesting one, do you die off because the people around you are?<br /> <br /> 29:35 time and energy put into bonding<br /> <br /> 29:51 biggest psychological issues of life extension; self-selecting; deal with people dropping off; the people into life extension are going to get used to it<br /> <br /> 31:11 why do people have kids?<br /> <br /> 31:23 the longer people live, the less likely they are to have kids<br /> <br /> 31:33 bigger separation between generations; acquired cultural disease, needs to be a connection through time scale<br /> <br /> 32:12 we have a scale for when it’s right to have kids, it’s always changing; there is no point that you can say it’s always been this way<br /> <br /> 32:51 the later you have kids, the longer you live<br /> <br /> 33:28 which is the cause?<br /> <br /> 33:39 not just the body, the mind must also grow; education is necessary for longevity<br /> <br /> 34:31 with more education are fewer accidents<br /> <br /> 34:43 but longest live species are trees<br /> <br /> 35:07 end<br /> <br /> [[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>

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