http://cyborganthropology.com/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Willowbl00&feedformat=atomCyborg Anthropology - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T12:30:33ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.23.13http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_Little_BrotherH+ Elbow Little Brother2011-03-05T04:10:08Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Meeting 3/4 at 1900'''<br />
<br />
==Agenda==<br />
*Has sousveillance helped or hindered people's abilities to improve quality of life? How?<br />
*Are you aware of surveillance technology in your environment?<br />
**How do you feel knowing you are being watched?<br />
*Has sousveillance contributed to the transformation of the future of humanity? How?<br />
*What is the potential of sousveillance?<br />
**Does it have limits?<br />
*Are you interested in knowing the location of surveillance cameras in your environment?<br />
**Would you document the location of surveillance cameras?<br />
**Why?<br />
<br />
[http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/010123.html B'Tselem's Video Camera Distribution Project: A Non-violent Way to Fight Back]<br />
<br />
==Summary==<br />
What it is!<br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance Sousveillance on wikipedia]<br />
<br />
==Quality of Life==<br />
*Recording police butality helps.<br />
*Reality motivates you to have something like this. Like employers abusing employees. But with something like this, it gives people who can't usually speak to defend themselves a value to add. But it's even more watching.<br />
*Idea is pretty mainstream now, not so much a movement. Everyone has a phone on them, quick to record things going on around them. Might not even be an av, but I might write an e-mail account of stuff. Sort of built in our heads how to record info to protect ourselves.<br />
*Thought about installing a camera in mailboxes to catch someone stealing mail.<br />
*But that's discoverable, so be careful what you record. Lawyer could request all the mail that has to do with this for the last 7 years or something. <br />
<br />
==Awareness==<br />
*Don't think many people are aware<br />
*When I'm in public, I assume I am, unless I'm at home<br />
*In Seattle, not so much. <br />
*You don't know when there's a camera on one of the shops<br />
'''Does the media give a biased view of proliferation of cameras?'''<br />
*Assume it's very public. Trickier to think all the time, am I walking by a camera, just assume.<br />
*I was a little influenced by things on TV. Guy on TV, but when it's recorded it looks like a crazy person. <br />
*Scared of how they'd edit you<br />
<br />
==Alter Behavior?==<br />
*I don't walk around feeling like I'm being watched. If I did, I might alter my behavior. Difference between a friend having a camera and Big Brother, i'm more rude to BB.<br />
*So I smoke weed sometimes, but if I don't have a place to light up, I'll look around for a camera. Other than that, not really.<br />
*I am influenced. More psyched by the editing capabilities. Easier to make someone look stupid or illegal. Try to be polite, otherwise I'm loud and obnoxious.<br />
*If you're into a group of your peers, people you know, you think about what might be seen a lot more because you might do something done at work, that could affect you. If you say something dumb at a meeting you mind yourself more. Peers.<br />
*Difference between being recorded and being watched. Future use versus active effort.<br />
<br />
==Shaping The Future==<br />
*You see a lot more stupid shit on the TV and internet. We haven't really reacted yet.<br />
*Makes me feel normal because everyone is crazy<br />
*All boats rise with the crazy tide<br />
*I don't know that I personally care about how much people watch me. If you want to watch me stroll down the street... ok...<br />
**But have you ever seen recorded footage of yourself? It's excrutating to see different aspects of yourself<br />
**In a mirror you're always posing<br />
**Like audio recording for public speaking and catching what you sound like<br />
*Was at Olympic Park, had to go into the office, so many monitors for watching the park. Felt '''one-sided''', gave me a bad feeling of unfairness. If you're a little more free in a park. Crazy feeling of "why would I go there?"<br />
*Female perspective is different because they're used to being watched<br />
<br />
==The Future of Sousvellience==<br />
*Too fast to be a movement. Too ubiquitos. Chaotic timeframe, fulltime audio recorders and then fulltime video recorders. Not long after that... authentications, don't know what the permissions will be like. People who publish their entire existence. <br />
*Like Justin.TV<br />
*Not everyone does that because most people realize they're not that interesting.<br />
**I suspect, as we become more individually capable, we'll feel more starved for connection, we'll publish our lives in hopes of a positive response<br />
**Good feedback mechanism<br />
**There's almost sort of a backlash, people who tweet everything or update FB all the time, realize no one cares, no one is listening. So leaving the camera running is no big deal<br />
**So long as it doesn't cost you anything<br />
**Wearable cameras a bit smaller, less dumb looking, <br />
***Part of your everyday attire<br />
*Will become more present. Satellites can become so much more clear, we can now say "I want to know what happened here from this time to this time, there's a global watching system. Top-down and bottom-up. When it becomes more affordable (private satellites), user generated content, people doing satellites will reach the goal faster.<br />
<br />
==Noise==<br />
*So much recorded that it's impossible to look at it all<br />
*Automation is scary. This is what a transaction looks like, an individual's biometrics.<br />
*I'm not someone care to watch. But what if you become someone to watch?<br />
**Not doing anything wrong means not being worried about being watched.<br />
**But what about when you do need to do something "wrong"?<br />
*Subtle ways of profiling people. You go into x shop, you have been seen next to y person, suddenly you have police tailing you.<br />
<br />
==Notification?==<br />
Google maps or somewhat, crowdsourced?<br />
*By the time I care about it, I would be smashing the cameras. They're all over the place. My behavior doesn't change<br />
*If you know it, you '''do''' change. If your phone beeps, you change your behavior<br />
*Any recording done by civil authority should be available as a live stream to the public. Should be a federal code.<br />
*Private sector fills in gaps of public coverage<br />
*not just about where the camera is, but where does the data go to?<br />
*Word about games where public feeds crowdsourced to public for crime investigations. Is that game points or euros?<br />
<br />
==Random==<br />
*Has the prevalence of surveillance in the UK actually helped? Or has it changed for the worse?<br />
*Evolutionarily, you can '''tell''' when you're being watched. If you can make cameras more human-friendly it would become more socially acceptable.<br />
**I see that happening in Japan<br />
**People only associate cameras with losing privacy or crime. Needs a new image (HA)<br />
*Backlash against people taking pictures, recording police, etc<br />
**In Seattle, there's no real way for officers to be punished after they've done something wrong. Charges often dismissed.<br />
**But if something like that has been recorded, would that have helped?<br />
**There is brainwashing that goes into colleges and schools that police are always correct. And so if there are enough videos, there are people losing faith in the system. Cops are human beings. It's not a one-sided thing, people mess up, gives a practical view of the world.<br />
**Important to have the tools there, even if the tools are sometimes used incorrectly. With enough of it, people won't stand a corrupt system for '''too''' long.<br />
**So there are videos in cops cars... how hard is it to get taht footage?<br />
***Incredibly difficult<br />
***So you have no choice, you have to protect yourself with your own information<br />
*There was a middle-eastern guy taking pictures on the docks, was arrested for taking pictures. DHS agent went up to him, gent didn't have ID, intimidated the crap out of him<br />
*Built in tech to record things going on around your car. You now have more power, it's a fair transaction.<br />
**Looping feed, clip where you want to save<br />
**Live feed, it's 3G<br />
*I don't like people to know where I am. I don't want peole to know when I'm not at home so they can rob me.<br />
**I don't have anything worth stealing, travel a lot, not many people know where I live<br />
**Son's school sends me updates as to when he arrived, what he had for lunch, etc. Not an opt-in system<br />
***Worried that your son is not having that adventurous childhood?<br />
***Yes!<br />
*What about the school that monitored the students?<br />
**I work at a place that does that!<br />
*If you want a wearable camera that's not detectible, how hard is that?<br />
**not at all<br />
*You have proof, you've recorded it. I have a video recording of a cop being really corrupt, but so what? You get people's sympathies, but it doesn't matter. <br />
<br />
==here to stay?==<br />
*yes. And a good thing<br />
<br />
Who has access? is the main issue. Is everyone a stewart of their own footage? <br />
<br />
<br />
See also: [[H%2B Elbow]], [[Sousveilliance]]<br />
[[Category: H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_Little_BrotherH+ Elbow Little Brother2011-02-15T00:27:18Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''Meeting 3/4 at 1900'''<br />
<br />
==Agenda==<br />
*Has sousveillance helped or hindered people's abilities to improve quality of life? How?<br />
*Are you aware of surveillance technology in your environment?<br />
**How do you feel knowing you are being watched?<br />
*Has sousveillance contributed to the transformation of the future of humanity? How?<br />
*What is the potential of sousveillance?<br />
**Does it have limits?<br />
*Are you interested in knowing the location of surveillance cameras in your environment?<br />
**Would you document the location of surveillance cameras?<br />
**Why?<br />
<br />
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance Sousveillance on wikipedia]<br />
<br />
[http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/010123.html B'Tselem's Video Camera Distribution Project: A Non-violent Way to Fight Back]<br />
<br />
See also: [[H%2B Elbow]], [[Sousveilliance]]<br />
[[Category: H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/EducationEducation2011-01-30T23:13:45Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '==Disclaimer== ''Despite the risk of embarrassing myself, I thought I'd get the ball rolling on this one by just dropping an essay I wrote for a class into this page. It's very …'</p>
<hr />
<div>==Disclaimer==<br />
<br />
''Despite the risk of embarrassing myself, I thought I'd get the ball rolling on this one by just dropping an essay I wrote for a class into this page. It's very rough and not a great paper, but there might be some topics in here to work with. It was written in a personal voice toward the high school and college drop out. The voice of this article should be changed to the neutral voice standard.<br />
<br />
''*I won't be offended if this paper in it's entirety needs to be deleted and replaced with a more appropriately written article.*<br />
<br />
''PolymathWannabe<br />
<br />
''aka - Jordan<br />
<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
<br />
'''To Discover: A New Pedagogy (Auto-didactic Learning on the Web)''' <br />
<br />
''- This paper is dedicated to a gentleman I met recently who gave up on using a computer because, in his words: “I can't keep up with everything that keeps changing”. -''<br />
<br />
<br />
==Innate Curiosity==<br />
<br />
We were all born with innate curiosity and demonstrate it quite prominently around the age of three when; without the instruction to do so, we started asking why all the time. For some; this is enough to sustain them through the hard work that study is. For others without the same skills or motivation, the traditional classroom can be a real challenge. Real dictionaries, encyclopedias, reference material, curriculum material, news sources and video lectures are available on the Internet for free. With these web tools we can explore our own interests, in our own order, in our own time frame and with our own method. We can teach ourselves.<br />
<br />
To all the High School or College dropouts working in what may seem to be dead end jobs, picking up garbage, cleaning hotel rooms, working the tedious assembly lines or wandering the streets; your education doesn’t have to be over. Going from job to job and working as a temp, I've met a lot of people in the same place you are in. But there are new ways of learning using the web that you might find useful for enriching your life and even advancing your career.<br />
You might have a memories of instructors who seemed like they were only hired because they knew the subject, but when placed up front it became clear by class consensus that they were not good at making speeches. Some of them were so confusing that it seemed like they didn't even know what they are talking about. And those research papers; running around the library, gather books and then wading through the stacks only to find yourself drowning in a pool with too many authors and their all too common long-winded or self-inflated tone. I know this was certainly not an experience I chose to repeat if I could help it.<br />
<br />
Failure in school is not failure in life. I know they told us, “If you want to get a good job you've got to study hard”. You might feel like you can't, because it didn't work out for people like you and me, but there are resource out there that might be a game changer for us. <br />
<br />
We just don’t hear many people saying, “Oh, you know what would be fun? We could go down to the library and study up on it (it being whatever the topic may be)”. This is probably because many of us don’t see study as a form of amusement. You might say, “Amusement is the very opposite of study!”, but histories great thinkers; the role models of the aspiring scholar, found the amusement of ideas.<br />
<br />
I know it seems like studying is boring, but it could be fun. I’m not saying education has to be dumbed down to be like the boob tube or the zombifying video game.<br />
<br />
While the physical library is usually a car drive (or bus ride) away, many similar resources are instantly available on the web where a person; not otherwise interested in study, can catch the spur of the moment answer to a curious question. We might not be able to afford a real encyclopedia set or feel it is worth the occasional question to run down to the library, but there are reputable encyclopedias on the web like MSN's Encarta <http://encarta.msn.com/ > These are excellent for those quick little tidbits.<br />
<br />
<br />
==Tangential Learning and Memorable Information==<br />
<br />
Friends and acquaintances of mine have described experiences where those sparks of knowledge lead to the exploration of the tangents they find most interesting for hours on end. I hear it everywhere, “Just Google it”. Following this tangential path of greatest interest is where things are more memorable than the things that we are forced to learn. Being force fed information that presently has no personal relevance has a tendency to suppress curiosity. Following your present interests also increases the relevance of the eventual interest in the other subjects and creates an even more solid foundation for retention.<br />
<br />
An example of this free form of study comes from my own life. As a child I had an almost complete lack of interest in History and Socio Political Events. But now I am fascinated by these topics. What changed? By independently reading the subjects that I found most interesting, I not only brought my reading skills way up, I also developed a solid context from which Human Behavior became personally relevant. I now have a strong interest in History and Socio Political Events. One off shoot of these topics is Epidemiology from which Microbiology became intriguing. Another example is Grammar, a subject I found dry and dull. However it was made clearer to me by observation rather than memorization with my increasing appetite for reading. These are just some of the topics I had nearly no interest in when I was younger, but that now engage my sense of exploration. Many different paths of personally relevant study can reach the same educational goals.<br />
<br />
It is learning methods like these where knowledge is applied and retained, where queries to dictionaries, thesauri and other web resources are immediately relevant and therefore far more memorable.<br />
We may be learning a lot this way, but this tangential mindset could become a problem. Information overload coupled with distractedness could limit any serious comprehension of any single subject. Focus may not be learned as easily without the guidance of mentors. <br />
<br />
<br />
==Beware of False or Misleading Information==<br />
<br />
And all this googling is not to say that all the information we are finding is accurate. There is quite a lot of false information on the web as well. Without knowing how to discern the good from the bad, a lot of people can get a head full of erroneous knowledge. It would behoove the aspiring scholar to consult the local librarian; in person, by phone, email or instant message (as available) to learn how to find reputable resources. Consult your librarian before changing your intellectual diet.<br />
<br />
<br />
==Video==<br />
<br />
The librarian may also point you to a number of rich multimedia resources like those created by PBS. Many libraries participate in a regional exchange, so the content that is not at the local library may be available to you at another location. Some regional systems go as far as delivering the items to your local branch. If you have this in your area, take advantage of it.<br />
Your librarian may direct you to a number of other multimedia resources available on the web. The PBS website <http://www.pbs.org > houses a vast library of video and supplementary material that is available for free. <br />
<br />
The Annenberg Foundation <http://www.whannenberg.org/ > created <http://www.learner.org > which provides a wide variety of high school and college level courses, many of which transcend the lecture format by supplementing the dissertation with video presentations. You may remember some of these being broadcast on PBS. <br />
<br />
A website called TED (“Technology, Entertainment, Design”: <http://www.ted.com/ > exhibits fascinating presentations from leaders in their field. Listening to world renowned speakers back to back for free and as long as you like and when you like, is out of this world.<br />
<br />
There are some universities that telecast their lectures who also post some of them on their websites for the public. In many cases these lectures are better than the ones we could afford to get in person. Try searching for universities you know about and ask your librarian.<br />
<br />
<br />
==Wikis and Forums==<br />
<br />
There is a kind of social currency among online communities where the provider of information is given stature among the community, while the provider of erroneous information is corrected with a hyperlink to the truth.<br />
<br />
Wikipedia, for example <http://wikipedia.org/ > should not be considered in total, to be on par with a real encyclopedia, but rather a form of community based consensus and review. The most common criticism is that anyone can edit it. It should however be known that there are measures in place. Users can set the article to a watch status on their profile. This means that when changes are made to the article, they are notified. They can then research and confirm by citing a source or dismiss the claim and delete it. If it gets changed back again by an anonymous person, their IP address can be blocked. If an article continues to be changed to include false information or vandalism, it can be set to only allow edits by users and then subsequently only by certain editors. There are many other measures in place for other concerns. For more see: “Wikipedia:Editorial oversight and control”. <http://en.wikipedia.org >. 26 June 2009. Wikipedia. 26 June 2009. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editorial_oversight_and_control >.<br />
<br />
Keep in mind that while wikis and forums are real time peer review that is aided by reputable sources and real scholars, it is also tarnished by some bad sources and performed by some people who should not be speaking on the subjects. Question their claims, research their references, add corrections to false or misleading information by referencing the reputable websites.<br />
<br />
<br />
-----<br />
<br />
One example of scanning for knowledge being very useful comes from a personal experience I had during a heat wave. I knew that I would be working outdoors and wearing the professional black pants and black shoes in 100 degree weather. I scanned about half a dozen web pages before I found a real gem of an article about keeping cool on a hot day. Hours later I heard requests on Twitter from other Seattleites for tips on keeping cool. I simply and quickly went back, copied the hyperlink, pasted it on my profile and off it went. Moments later I saw it being reposted giving me credit for the find with the Twitter convention of @username (username in this case being my screen name). It went viral. This rapid method is a great way for finding and sharing knowledge. I can’t imagine going to the library, wading through too many books with old information and then calling all those people up and describing the information that I found. But still beware, there is a lot of misleading information.<br />
-----<br />
<br />
<br />
==eBooks==<br />
<br />
Many of you are bookworms. You might have found your current read more interesting and informative than some of the classes you took. Obviously, your persistent reading will help build a greater understanding for the structure and breadth of language. To help you on your way, there are hundreds of classic works of literature (among tens of thousands of others) that are in the public domain, free to download. Project Gutenberg <http://www.gutenberg.org > is one place you can get them. Download a couple that look interesting and just scan the first couple pages of each until you find something that interests you and that facilitates your reading style. As you enjoy literature that makes sense, you can build the foundation to read the other, older and thicker literature.<br />
<br />
Imagine having a couple bookshelves worth of classic literature sitting in your pocket, just waiting for you to slip away to the park or a favorite coffee shop. You can, with your Cell Phone (if it supports text files) or PDA. Your Cell Phone or PDA may even be capable of installing free eBook reader software <http://www.mobipocket.com/en/DownloadSoft >. The main advantage of using the eBook reader software is that you can click on words you don’t know or understand and a dictionary pops up. There are also features that the software enables, like choosing the font size and type, adding bookmarks, dog-earing the pages (with an eBook it's just a little picture that gets put on the corner of the page making it look like it has been dog-eared), and adding notes for personal reference among others. With the web on your phone, or on your home computer, you also have immediate access to commentaries on many piece of literature.<br />
<br />
When it comes to reading the older literature, it can be a real struggle. But many of them have been turned into films which can help you get a better visual framework to place the story in and to uncover the meaning of their verbal language from their body language. From here, reading the book will make more sense than just diving into something too thick. Of course the plot has now been spoiled. But still, there is something about mulling over a single poetic verse even after you already know what is going to happen. <br />
<br />
<br />
==Audio Books==<br />
<br />
You might also get something out of audio books, which Project Gutenberg also has for free. You can listen to these; on your long commute to work (especially if you ride the bus), at a boring job where they let you wear earphones while you work, at home while doing your chores or just sitting back in the evening imagining places and contemplating ideas. If you don’t have an MP3 player but have a CD Walkman, check out the library again. They just might have the audio book that inspires a new chapter in your life. The library will have additional titles that are not free to download from the web as they are not in the “public domain”. While the exercise of listening to audio books won’t be directly advancing your reading skills, you will still become more familiar with the construction of language from the masters of oration. <br />
<br />
<br />
==A Vision for the Future==<br />
<br />
I took forward to the day when all the resources necessary to the pursuit one’s vocational and personal intellectual aspirations are available for free as a kind of public service akin to the library system. Imagine how liberating it would be for the individual; with their innate curiosity, to explore their own interests, in their own order, in their own time and in their own method. It may eventually become possible for hundreds of thousands; who otherwise might not have been able to afford college, to get a free education.<br />
<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/Transhumanism_in_CommunityTranshumanism in Community2011-01-30T23:11:06Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with 'Often, the scope of discussion about transhumanist ideas focuses the most positive attention on advancing the individual condition, while the effect of bio- and techno-progressiv…'</p>
<hr />
<div>Often, the scope of discussion about transhumanist ideas focuses the most positive attention on advancing the individual condition, while the effect of bio- and techno-progressive politics and continually advancing technologies is ignored or considered detrimental to community interaction and cohesion. What are the risks and rewards of transhumanism in the context of community, and how might transhumanists address both the concerns and the opportunities presented?<br />
<br />
[[Category:H%2B Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/EthicsEthics2011-01-30T23:10:09Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with 'A brief overview of several representative historical ethical theories and how they relate to each other historically will be presented by Theo Questions: *How does ethics chang…'</p>
<hr />
<div>A brief overview of several representative historical ethical theories and how they relate to each other historically will be presented by Theo<br />
<br />
Questions:<br />
*How does ethics change (or does it) as society becomes more wealthy?<br />
*Treatment of animals re experimentation pre human augmentation.<br />
*How should cryogenically frozen people be treated?<br />
*As people become more machine, and their machine parts gradually become more capable than regular human parts, how should society react?<br />
<br />
[[Category:H%2B Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/EtiquetteEtiquette2011-01-30T23:09:04Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with 'divide between classes is distinguished through etiquette physical or social survival group behavior/contextually acceptable what causes these shifts? *trying to be preemptive…'</p>
<hr />
<div>divide between classes is distinguished through etiquette<br />
<br />
physical or social survival<br />
<br />
group behavior/contextually acceptable<br />
<br />
what causes these shifts?<br />
*trying to be preemptive<br />
*prioritizing meatspace over ethers<br />
*what about when these are difficult to distinguish between?<br />
<br />
What about when social groups are about what you've done to yourself rather than background<br />
<br />
How do you deal with new info from your surroundings in relation to your newsfeed<br />
*showing your sources to local people<br />
*be open minded and share!<br />
<br />
Balancing geographically local people with friends who are Local to you (in that you talk to them regularly, share info, etc)<br />
<br />
Twitter streams as gossip<br />
<br />
"More is Different"<br />
<br />
Hardwired for 40-80 people you know well - Dunbar - get around this by focusing on the group rather than on the individual so you don't have to know specifics<br />
<br />
Social contracts - rigid, breaking down in present and Future<br />
<br />
Reminders as tags on profiles<br />
<br />
Recognition better than total recall<br />
<br />
Affinity groups are larger, and there is also more overlap between groups<br />
<br />
Patterned relationships being replaced by ad hoc<br />
<br />
Thought trolling would go away<br />
<br />
Why don't we shun trolls more often?<br />
<br />
Modding trolls into oblivion<br />
*shunning them, so they're not around<br />
<br />
What about switching identity?<br />
*advantageous to have a long standing identity<br />
*kudos<br />
<br />
Ability to quiet people by ignoring them<br />
*establish norms by ignoring people who don't follow (big kid table)<br />
*more exclusive means more strange etiquette<br />
<br />
Established log of evolution of rules, with research can follow<br />
<br />
Exclusivity either self-destructs or makes it more sought after<br />
<br />
Us and Them is how you bond<br />
<br />
Blurry social guidelines, moving between groups - more difficult because so many variations; easier because of cross contamination<br />
*open to other ideas means less likely to fight<br />
*self-feeding groups, supportive<br />
<br />
Tech can make our exclusive groups interconnect or can cause more exclusivity<br />
<br />
Groups based on ideaology rather than socioeconcomic class<br />
*screening out local in favor of Local breaks up community<br />
<br />
Universal Thread for Etiquette?<br />
*always have a set of rules<br />
*group preservation<br />
<br />
Global self-identification is very new<br />
<br />
Nationalism, imagined community, lost in translation<br />
<br />
Euro keeping Europe from war (maybe not guerrilla warefare...) - what about further consolodation?<br />
<br />
Instead of huge blow ups, just constant low hum of violence<br />
<br />
One huge power means no checks on them<br />
<br />
What about global community with all these nukes?<br />
<br />
Media war/propaganda<br />
<br />
Come together for social need, after that need is met, doors close. If need if for more minds, group stays open<br />
<br />
We have a biased view because we live in a very open place<br />
<br />
Closed groups keep it closed, based on what you 'don't' like; self-preseveration against infiltration which would destroy the gorup - use the same tools as open group<br />
<br />
Everyone thinks other people as being closed minded<br />
<br />
Godwin's Law<br />
<br />
[[Category:H%2B Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/Urban_SustainabilityUrban Sustainability2011-01-30T23:01:51Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '[http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17923-sustainable-living-in-two-parking-spaces.html Sustainable living in two parking spaces]'</p>
<hr />
<div>[http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17923-sustainable-living-in-two-parking-spaces.html Sustainable living in two parking spaces]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/Relating_to_each_other_through_machinesRelating to each other through machines2011-01-30T22:55:10Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '[http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/24/social-networking-site-changing-childrens-brains How Social Networking sites are changing our brains] [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magaz…'</p>
<hr />
<div>[http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/24/social-networking-site-changing-childrens-brains How Social Networking sites are changing our brains]<br />
<br />
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7920434.stm Dunbar's Number]<br />
<br />
See also:<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_InteractionsH+ Elbow Interactions2011-01-30T22:53:46Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>08/08/22 [[Constructing Online Identity]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/ConstructingIdentity.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
08/10/17 [[Property]] : No Audio<br />
<br />
08/11/07 [[data vs sensory perception]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20Perception1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Perception2.mp3 Audio 2] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/03%20Perception3.mp3 Audio 3]<br />
<br />
09/01/02 [http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=4015 Emergent Leadership] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Emergent%20Leadership.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://imul.us/podcasts/02%20EmergentLeadership.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/01/30 [[relating to each other through machines]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20relating.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Relating2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/06/19 [[Urban Sustainability]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/urban.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
09/06/05 [[etiquette]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/etiquette.mp3 partial audio]<br />
<br />
09/05/08 [[Ethics]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Ethics2%201.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Ethics2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/04/10 [[Transhumanism in Community]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20community1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20community2.mp3 Audio 2] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/03%20community3.mp3 Audio 3] (noisy place, apologies)<br />
<br />
09/4/09 [[Education]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/education.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
09/10/9 [[Eugenics]] : there was a [http://eugenics.washington.edu/ conference] at UW, with lots of information : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/eugenics.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
10/22/01 [[Cultural Reservations / Preservation]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/cultural.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
See also: [[H%2B Elbow]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/Perception_MinutesPerception Minutes2011-01-30T22:52:16Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>0:11 - 0:24 Introductions, set up<br />
<br />
0:54 Roadmap of discussion<br />
<br />
1:22 engineering our environment, filtering senses, decontextualization, not having to work as much, attitudes towards input whether it's been made for us or not; intermediary input through your body, design changing your environment around you, deliberate attention/meta programming; not about meat versus technology, what's the difference between senses taking in things because it's a learned response versus something that's completely designed; how is our selective attention changing? We're selectively not scanning web banners, how is that different from interacting with a forest, are you paying more or less attention to your classic senses? How do we create context/how do we deal with things out of context? Looking for firewood and looking for a file are becomming more similar - systems in which you're interacting; obligation that comes with thinking someone engineered something for you as opposed to Nature, don't have the same expectation that things are going to work for you<br />
<br />
9:37 do you think that's true?<br />
<br />
9:44 if people's refrigerators stopped working, they wouldn't know how to keep food cold<br />
<br />
10:05 you're not going to say The River dumped me, you don't think Goddamn Bill Gates, you think the computer did it; talking about the anthropomorphizing of the computer<br />
<br />
10:52 how willing are we to interact with things? What are we doing with the stuff around us? We don't really have a set definition for a Sense and what it is to take in and process data; how is our sense of the world around us changing?<br />
<br />
11:59 Spaciality and Temporality are manifesting through electronic interfaces; as the way we sense space and time has changed, the way we interact with the world has also changed; we can now remove something from its original context, it becomes a simulation; we get so much more information now than we ever have, and we pick and choose what we want to form our personal narrative<br />
<br />
13:58 We've always been surrounded by information, but we're good at pulling out what we need; there's so much going on in life that there's a lot of synchronicity if you look for it<br />
<br />
14:44 we have so much information that it sort of creates an a temporal sense of the world - everything is manufactured, is as if it just appeared where it was, you don't see where it's coming from<br />
<br />
15:13 you lose the context of it<br />
<br />
15:15 allows for endless freedom through multiplicity of direction, but also easy to get lost; there's nothing to connect to<br />
<br />
15:57 at the same time, you're always creating context; any time you see something and recognize it, your brain is equipped to process stored things (video, audio, etc)<br />
<br />
16:24 we have a lot of news sources now, determine where you get your information as opposed to when you only used your immediate senses for what's going on around you. Now worldview is tinted by where you get your news, what spin they put on it; creating own context for all the information you're getting<br />
<br />
18:00 [http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/seattle911/archives/152967.asp?source=mypi Red Square], readjusting context based on new information, what can you get out of it for yourself<br />
<br />
19:44 neat way to look at it - instead of having context taken away, we have ability to synthesize our own<br />
<br />
19:57 each source has its own context its trying to place on you as well, but by seeing the agenda of different sources you can compare and see what's at the base, where you want to be on it<br />
<br />
20:29 when you drive a car you can act with your senses or you can interact with the interface; because you're so used to synthesizing, are you more likely to say The Car Smells Funny or read the gauges?<br />
<br />
21:04 use both; when you're driving a car you don't think about where the information is coming from because you've been doing it for so long; when you first start driving you're acutely aware of where each bit of information is coming from because it takes so much effort to register it (look down from road to dials); through use you start to trust things more; to the point with the feeds he follows, he knows where things are coming from and can trust them more as opposed to just following links and not knowing what's a front for a spam site, etc; trust the things to do the things they're designed for<br />
<br />
22:44 presenting information in a way that has an agenda; all times have had context put on information, like the Church in Medieval times having control over the information coming out; knowledge produced with a certain group with a certain agenda, now we can seek out different sources, but a lot of people don't; seems to be threatening to humans to have a lack of context, there's comfort in having meaning already incorporated into the information you're receiving; a lot of people don't think about the interface they're receiving information through<br />
<br />
24:15 being around design people (or being one) makes you acutely aware of how design affects you. Massive Change is a [http://www.massivechange.com/ website], [http://www.massivechange.com/book book], [http://www.massivechange.com/exhibition art exhibit] that shows design is the way you view the world; we have this assumption that people who have nicely designed, easy to use websites are trustworthy, how are we choosing what to trust?<br />
From chat: Jake von Slatt: Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain.<br />
Jack: Funny <br />
<br />
25:41 trying to trust things by only having one story, creating mythology; trusting your senses instead of trusting what people are telling you<br />
<br />
26:19 in order to find the spin you like, you have to go through a lot of information to get there, the stories other people were telling didn't match the personal experience, then bring the outside information in to support your own take<br />
<br />
28:05 when you're looking for other bits of information to explain an out-of-context event it's like finding meaning; we always want to put things together coherently, we don't want to find the sources, we want to understand it<br />
<br />
28:59 when are you looking at things and analyzing them, and when are you experiencing things viscerally? Difference between getting information from data and info from bodily senses is that when it's an online source (for example), you question where the information is coming from, what it means, etc.. whereas if it's your hand, you touched it, you know it; is there a way to process data viscerally<br />
<br />
29:39 critically versus viscerally comes down to how the information is presented, how it is designed determines how closely you connect to it<br />
<br />
30:26 you get a response and internalize it even if it's not visceral<br />
<br />
29:50 violent episode, degrees of separation: if you're there, if you read about it in the newspaper, if you visit the website that has interviews with family of the victim, or see security camera footage.. all different ways of getting information, just different levels of visceral<br />
<br />
31:42 many people don't know they need to seek stuff out<br />
<br />
31:48 how much our brains make up of what we experience, fill in the gaps; difference between live performance and a recording. When you're experiencing something you're putting your own spin on it, when you know you can experience it again you can concentrate on certain points, desensitizes you; when you're in the moment all you can think about is the moment<br />
<br />
32:46 the way visual stuff works, we don't know how completely; [http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.psych.60.110707.163604 mirror effect and empathy], if you have connections to what you're watching due to previous experience you're more likely to relate to it<br />
<br />
33:49 individuals are going to have reactions to any kind of sensation based on their history of interactions<br />
<br />
34:11 object recognition, what happens when you're recognizing objects in an immersive game where it's designed to be recognized and interacted with as opposed to pulling specifically from your previous interactions with the world - being in a world where everything is made to be recognized versus being in a world where things are not necessarily being made for your abilities<br />
From Chat: Jack Prince: Perception versus imagination?<br />
or a cross between the two<br />
Willow Bloo: sort of<br />
you fill in perceptions<br />
Jack Prince: How do we avoid this?<br />
Willow Bloo: ooh<br />
Jake von Slatt: do you want to?<br />
Jack Prince: Is it possible to do one hundred percent<br />
<br />
34:56 they're simulacra, a tree looks like a tree because it represents a tree<br />
<br />
35:04 what's the effect of constantly wandering around in a simulacra?<br />
<br />
35:11 games that are made for kids, if you don't know where to go, hints through mouse-overs; reduces need to interact with everything sitting on the table, things that aren't nailed down, only taking in that data set<br />
<br />
36:07 how is that different than a Parkour lesson, where someone tells you a wall is climbable?<br />
<br />
36:12 then there is experience behind it<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_(video_game) doom] vs. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zork zork] ?<br />
Willow Bloo: don't know zork<br />
relevent to discussion?<br />
Jake von Slatt: a maze of twisty littla passages, all alike?<br />
Willow Bloo: ah<br />
Jack Prince: Having that helping hand all the time could make us complacent or lazy.<br />
Jake von Slatt: zork is text based <br />
<br />
36:23 Sean from chat, Doom versus Zork; different level of interaction<br />
<br />
36:24 Zork is you figuring out how to interact with things, Doom is very specific in what you can do and not do<br />
<br />
37:09 Jack in chat then asks, does having that hand make us complacent?<br />
<br />
37:12 yes<br />
<br />
37:15 depends on the context of the situation<br />
<br />
37:17 you're not needing to think about what to do<br />
<br />
37:22 that's the way the game is set up<br />
<br />
37:24 if anything, having that hand means the game is being complacent or lazy because the game is not set up for everything to be interactive, so they have to point out what is<br />
<br />
36:45 otherwise it's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katamari Katamari]<br />
<br />
36:47 so you point out what is able to be interacted with<br />
<br />
37:59 two versions of Zork, text based and GUI based; text are very difficult because you have to interact with the description<br />
<br />
38:51 Abram joins us<br />
<br />
39:04 text adventure games because you never know what will work, high level of interactivity because you have to do a lot more poking per object instead of it being easy to figure out; adds an extra layer to the world where your backpack is your inventory, gave an obsession with interactivity in the same way parkour does<br />
<br />
39:59 overlap between data perception and sensory, when you play a game too much your finger twitches when you want to do something in the 'real' world, the overlap between data reaction and actual interaction<br />
<br />
49:48 [http://www.secondskinfilm.com/ Second Skin] documentary about WoW addicts, as you interact with a game 14 hours a day it changes the neuroplasticity of the brain, the simulation becomes more real, manifestations of fantasies that they're not having fulfilled in life; is this healthy? or just representing a handicap, not taking responsibility to fulfill risk in life<br />
<br />
42:38 but then people file police reports when their characters are killed, emotional attachment, so there is risk<br />
<br />
42:49 but not the same level of risk<br />
<br />
42:54 with brain adapting to new environments, talk about incorporating new senses?<br />
<br />
43:02 soon we're going to get fuzzier on where is the data and where are your senses; MIT blocks, moving them determines what you're doing, tilting your iPhone as an interface, shake the nano to shuffle, getting back to original interactions instead of hand on a mouse<br />
<br />
43:56 marble answering machine being a tactile experience instead of flat technology; the more we build our technology to suit things we already understand the better we are at interacting with it, and we're also getting better at interacting with technology as technology; how does having oxygen technology that you don't have to think about change the way you interact with the world?<br />
<br />
45:30 we change the way we interact based on tools available to us; how we research things if you only have access to books versus keyword searches, two hours of work now done in 20 minutes; get in habit of just skimming, eliminating stuff in the way of information you want, thinking in short bursts instead of long interrupted strings<br />
<br />
46:52 what if you spent the same amount of time on the paper you're writing using new tools, get an even better paper instead of just saving time<br />
<br />
47:16 with the amount of information available now, you just run into repetition and regurgitation<br />
<br />
47:21 immersive nature of that, just like with senses and not paying attention to what you're processing, do you do the same thing with data? And what happens to our fact checking as instead of interacting with the technology we're interacting with the environment through technology: HUDs, GPS, RFID readings<br />
<br />
48:22 there comes a point where we have to trust it, and sometimes it's wrong but it's still giving me information; but if you're in an unfamiliar environment and you're using GPS you have to trust it<br />
<br />
49:03 but what's changed with that? you have to trust gravity that you're not going to fall<br />
<br />
49:18 when I'm in the wild and i have a map and a compass I can compare what's on th map to what's in front of me<br />
<br />
49:39 the GPS tells you you're somewhere that your experiences should lend to letting you know if it's right or not<br />
<br />
49:55 difference between error on a map and error on GPS versus an illusion where you see a mountain as being closer than it is<br />
<br />
50:15 GPS being wrong; who is in control of the information? it's not the issue of the data but who's putting it out there; if we just have data handed to us then our minds will atrophy; without proper input you won't perform in a certain way<br />
<br />
51:30 people who already do that, won't create more who do<br />
<br />
51:41 some people think evolution is static, your brain is not static, it changes if you use it<br />
<br />
52:51 your genes are the cards you're dealt, socialization is how you play the cards, but your social adaptations actually change your genes, which are passed on to your children; how is that relating to how we process the environments we're constructing?<br />
<br />
53:33 unless it affects your ability to use MySpace to get laid, will it really affect your genetic output?<br />
<br />
53:49 simple and complex nature, complexity hands you how to deal with things, makes you complacent; if it's simple and easy people get confused<br />
<br />
54:32 good design and bad design<br />
<br />
54:37 who's in control of the information<br />
<br />
54:50 easy to find certain settings and fundamental pieces for your laptop, other things are difficult to locate; things the average user should be able to find are easy to locate, things you shouldn't get into unless you know what you're doing are more buried<br />
<br />
55:25 evolution thing, we're the first generation that grew up with computers, they're intuitive; older people view it as too difficult<br />
<br />
55:51 open doorway with grandma to talk her through things on the computer<br />
<br />
56:15 what do you do when your data and senses sync breaks down? When your GPS isn't saying you are where you are, what do you do? Abandon the data and just use senses or do you troubleshoot more?<br />
<br />
56:39 I don't think we distinguish between abstract data and sensory data, you just interact with things without thinking about things after you've dealt with them for awhile, don't think it's different than any other source of data we've ever dealt with in history<br />
<br />
57:43 that's why it's natural versus designed because it's the only meaningful distinction at that point<br />
<br />
58:00 depends entirely on context of situation; you don't realize you're using a hammer until you hit your thumb, until then it's an extension of self<br />
<br />
59:02 pure procedural processing, nothing declarative about it<br />
<br />
59:06 so follow GPS until it starts to go wrong, and then you think of it as a GPS unit and you start analyzing it instead of just using it as a stream of information<br />
<br />
59:34 that's the level of interaction a lot of people that want to give you information are reaching for; how many websites do you not know which is an ad and which is a legit link? doing that actively; suspension of disbelief while watching a movie, snapping out of it, incorporating adverts<br />
<br />
1:00:43 taking information, using everything you have to reconstruct what's going on in the world around you, and at some point your body stops and your environment begins, it's just about processing; Transhumanism to me is there is no fundamental difference between suiting up in things that alter how you see your environment and actually changing your environment; the question that started this discussion for me, what's the difference between having RFID tags on everything and having fancy goggles that tell you what things are? Still getting data feedback about everything<br />
<br />
1:01:47 it's about the lag time; photoshop and creativity, less lag means what you want to do more closely matches what you intended<br />
<br />
1:02:21 if you click on something and it doesn't immediately respond there's the breakdown (like the the GPS/actuality)<br />
<br />
1:02:34 lag with direct stimulation of pain in the brain as opposed to less lag when you're actually experiencing it<br />
<br />
1:03:29 lag and visceral idea, [http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2007/10/09 RadioLab thing on emotional reactions], you're not just reacting to your environment through your head, your body gets the signal first, so you're processing to how your body is reacting as well as when information your 'brain' is getting; body as context as well as your environment as context<br />
<br />
1:04:23 feedback loop between what your body is experiencing and what your brain is doing; is your body going through something and your brain is coming up with an emotional response or are you having an emotional response and then matching it with bodily reactions<br />
<br />
1:04:44 philisophical "what's real?"<br />
<br />
1:05:11 whole other conversation<br />
<br />
from chat: Jack Prince: Response first adrenalin later <br />
<br />
1:05:16 cockroach is running when you turn on the lights even before it knows its running; Nathan's experience at the dentist<br />
<br />
1:05:34 Nathan's story about just having a bodily response with no emotional context, having it explained meant being able to control bodily response<br />
<br />
1:06:32 pure experience of one without the other<br />
<br />
1:06:57 control bodily reaction when you have context<br />
<br />
1:07:12 difference between stage fright and anticipation of desperately wanting to be on stage, it's how you interpret the reaction<br />
<br />
1:07:42 how you import the data, interpret it, how you perceive things; trying to find meaning<br />
<br />
1:08:11 [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3852/is_200401/ai_n9374507 shaky bridge experiment], romantic feelings increasing after being in a dangerous situation; associate you with the feelings they're having<br />
<br />
1:09:10 how does that affect your idea of data processing? created senses?<br />
<br />
from chat: Jake von Slatt: "Fight or flight" but so much of our world requires "chill" which our bodies don't know how to do.<br />
Jack Prince: A lot of times that is correct.<br />
Willow Bloo: yes!<br />
Jake von Slatt: result is stress. <br />
<br />
1:09:36 Jake says, fight or flight, but our current world requires chill, which we don't know how to do; when we're looking at what's happening in Dubai we're supposed to remain calm, we create different contexts in order to respond the way we're 'supposed to'<br />
<br />
1:10:17 Pseumatic Marker Affect, long emotional time to react to the event, triggers response every time you're at the corner; browser doesn't have lag time to develop an emotional response, so you just absorb images but don't have emotional response to build up, get desensitized<br />
<br />
1:11:12 what determines that desensitization? as you interpret it differently; difficulty distinguishing between truth and fiction<br />
<br />
1:11:51 personal experience changing how you interpret things<br />
<br />
1:12:02 in dreams, you can experience things like you're there; ability to empathize based on previous experience<br />
<br />
1:12:25 easy to learn something if it's based on previous context, otherwise it's rote memorization first to create the context and then you add on<br />
<br />
1:12:37 empathy as a skill, you're better at it if you use it; person crying on sidewalk being ignored because you have to be to work or do you sit down and figure out what's going on?<br />
<br />
1:13:21 click the link!<br />
<br />
1:13:24 does the pointer change shape as you hover over them?<br />
<br />
1:13:28 you are exceptional in sitting down with them<br />
<br />
1:13:37 just as an example<br />
<br />
1:13:44 it's a lot about choice, what do you choose to spend time on, that alters your response; opting in and out of interpretations<br />
<br />
1:14:07 reframing to deal with anxiety, dealing with planes because of something that didn't have to do with planes but happened on one<br />
<br />
1:14:42 meta programming<br />
<br />
1:14:46 there is a choice in how you do things<br />
<br />
1:15:04 multiplicity in how we deal with information, through science we know how we deal with things can change, and that changes us; brain is plastic<br />
<br />
1:15:39 make or break anything, imagination to see what you do, fill in blanks; if you don't use it it atrophies<br />
<br />
1:16:15 and then it's Fox News<br />
<br />
1:16:20 using different sources to see what spin is going on, filter through agendas<br />
<br />
1:17:18 when dealing with actual versus designed worlds, how much do you get to impose your own framing? More or less confident going into what someone else has designed? You know someone has constructed it so do you look out for it more?<br />
<br />
1:17:34 in the natural world you don't have data providers, designed world everything has an agenda, still be able to reframe<br />
<br />
1:18:04 concept of authority, the first time a human asked another human "what do you feel about this?"<br />
<br />
1:18:26 ethical issues; tv with 10 minute narrative of the world, try to paste that into your world and what it means to you, don't have freedom to go out and explore sources; don't have time, or leisure time spend exploring sources<br />
<br />
1:19:17 [http://www.warrenellis.com/?p=5885 Gin and the Cognitive Surplus] (Clay Shirky), interactive society - building wiki instead of watch TV<br />
<br />
1:20:00 some people don't know there are other options<br />
<br />
1:20:12 what does it mean to trust your senses when you're in an interactive game?<br />
<br />
1:20:20 other senses beyond the 5 we usually think of<br />
<br />
1:20:27 we're all smart enough to know we lead a pretty meta experience, we're all always kind of in an interactive game. You can go through a day where all you do is respond instead of analyzing it; whether in life or in WoW we're presented with information and we respond to it whether or not we are paying attention to it<br />
<br />
1:21:45 simulation becomes just as real as reality<br />
<br />
1:21:49 we can rely on senses in immersive video gaming because our senses help us predict patterns and so we have things we can expect as a consequence of actions; that's the overlap<br />
<br />
1:22:25 we are pattern seeking beings<br />
<br />
1:22:28 we change patterns to step out of cycles<br />
<br />
1:22:43 we're constructing patterns, those patterns are changing<br />
<br />
1:22:56 patterns of advertising allow us to skip them<br />
<br />
1:23:00 we can see the manipulations so clearly<br />
<br />
1:23:07 word of mouth as best advertising because we skip everything else, advertising learning you, data mining<br />
<br />
1:24:11 also noting what you click on and what you don't, detect trends, behavioral pattern of a group<br />
<br />
1:25:27 closing remarks<br />
<br />
1:25:52 "every technological extension is a biological amputation"<br />
<br />
1:26:13 medium is the message (or medium is the massage); studying telecommunications completely desensitizes you to being influenced by mediums<br />
<br />
1:27:32 tangent<br />
<br />
1:30:34 Jake's final point is that you have to make a decisions about what to trust, if you don't trust anything you won't make any process<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
*[[Data_vs_sensory_perception]]<br />
*[[Perception Chat]]<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/Perception_ChatPerception Chat2011-01-30T22:51:42Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>Download the original attachment<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: dropped me<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:28 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: Jake?<br />
<br />
there you are<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: back online<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: kk<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:29 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has left.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain.<br />
<br />
Jack: Funny<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: the web-trust disscussion reminded of that. HP is full of idealized interfaces.<br />
<br />
so is StarTrek TNG.<br />
<br />
comic sans! Argh!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: are you there willow?<br />
<br />
Jack: She dropped out a while ago I believe<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:49 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has joined.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sweet!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: got it!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has left.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has joined.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: can you see the history?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: no<br />
<br />
please forward it when everything's done<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: it's breif:<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Funny<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: the web-trust disscussion reminded of that. HP is full of idealized interfaces.<br />
<br />
so is StarTrek TNG.<br />
<br />
comic sans! argh!<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:46 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: are you there willow?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sweet thank you<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Perception versus imagination?<br />
<br />
or a cross between the two<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sort of<br />
<br />
you fill in perceptions<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: How do we avoid this?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: ooh<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: do you want to?<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Is it possible to do one hundred percent<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: I'll interject when I can<br />
<br />
for my own reference, we're at the 34:45 mark<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: doom vs. zork ?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: don't know zork<br />
<br />
relevent to discussion?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: a maze of twisty littla passages, all alike?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: ah<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Having that helping hand all the time could make us complacent or lazy.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: zork is text based<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:57 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: not quite what I was going for - I'm lagging the conversation. Zork is text based - it's all fill in by imagination.<br />
<br />
ah good!<br />
<br />
LOL!<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:59 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Katamari Damacy syndrome - want to roll up real things<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes. listening to soundtrack is dangerous in the car<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: LOL<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I am so lost when it comes to games. One of my downfalls.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: not a downfall<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: I don't play them but gamers are interesting people.<br />
<br />
My dad is a big gamer<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I was a controller thrower as a child. I never recovered, and it bled over into everyother game: board, card, etc.<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:03 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: actually gamers a good case studies for this - they totally immerse themselves and I'll bet that effect their view of the world when the surface again.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Books can have the same effect.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: totally<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes<br />
<br />
romance novels are an experience, not good literature<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: have you read Diana Gabaldon's Outlander? is both.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Action and questing. Tolkien King<br />
<br />
No I haven't<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Couldn't we incorporate the buddhist definition of awareness into our daily life, so that we stay aware of the things around us.<br />
<br />
Mindfulness<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:08 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: many cases of drivers following gps into bad situations<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:09 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: LOL! I got lost in Seattle a couple of days ago because I used my iPhone like a GPS. The direction I walked was determined by the orientation it came out of my pocket! <br />
<br />
I was thinging of other things - distracted.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: hee<br />
<br />
and thank you for keeping up chatting in here<br />
<br />
the total effect will be better if I'm getting feedback in here as well<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: it's hard!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: I know<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: We should be, dare I say, trained at an early age to use what natural sense we have.<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:13 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: hehehe<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:14 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: and success in the marketplace -evolution of the interface itself!<br />
<br />
call dropped<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: yes<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sorry<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Not your fault! you on Windows?<br />
<br />
Blame Bill Gates!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: I'm on a Mac<br />
<br />
but the RAM needs to be replaced<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: damn steve<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Linux here nooo problems! XD<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: fucking Steve<br />
<br />
what kind of rapper name is Steve?<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: s t to the eve<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sorry, Flight of the Concords reference<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: dropped again - gonna go get a drink - brb<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: arg<br />
<br />
fixing<br />
<br />
kk<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Thanks<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: Jake, let me know when you're back<br />
<br />
Jack, sure thing<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: I'm back.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: wb<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:22 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: any points?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: getting back into the convo<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: kk<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Response first adrenalyn later<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:25 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: i think part of the response is the adrenalin<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I knew that I spelled that wrong. Hehe<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: i can't spell for crap<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Yes!<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:27 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: "Fight or flight" but so much of our world requires "chill" which our bodies don't know how to do.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: A lot of times that is correct.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: result is stress.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Practice?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: that basically right<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: ok<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: or when someone give you a hand massage.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Desensitizing<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: But is that good or bad, in the long run?<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:32 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Are they luring you in for something bad though?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: how much do you trust the source of data?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: You been watch too many hollywood movies Jack!<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:35 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: No such thing as old dogs!<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:36 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:36 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: 1:18":00<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Plenty of films. But I have seen a lot of ne'er-do-wells that try to sucker you.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: (sorry, reference)<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Cultural difference i.e. Japanese UI design drives westerners crazy.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Seals and Crofts?<br />
<br />
Nevermind<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: <br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Bah!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: bah what?<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I know that there is something else, but some of us like television more than interactivity.<br />
<br />
In game format that is<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: is good<br />
<br />
I understand<br />
<br />
it gives stories, things to talk about, etc<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I like thinking of life as an RPG.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: we should talk about that sometime<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: ;or when we are playing LJ or Myspace <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: yes!<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Myspace ads me Stephen King constantly!<br />
<br />
It's sentient<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: The Goog is scary smart<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: hee<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: it means that the understand people, not you in particular.<br />
<br />
that how I wrote my college papers.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: hee<br />
<br />
yes<br />
<br />
is that your closing remark, Jake<br />
<br />
?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: hehe, I don't know that I really have one -<br />
<br />
hehehe!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: noooo worries<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Thanks for including me. Even this chat window is an amazing inclusion.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yay!<br />
<br />
Thank you so much for joining, Jack<br />
<br />
it means a lot<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: OK: You have to make decision about what to trust, if you trust nothing your won't make progress.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: I'll post to the LJ and we can chat more<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Academy?<br />
<br />
Interesting<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: What you trust<br />
<br />
Thanks everyone!<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:52 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: Thank you Sean!<br />
<br />
er<br />
<br />
Jake<br />
<br />
and Jack!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Sean<br />
<br />
to you.<br />
<br />
me: Thank you<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: well<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt is typing…<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: LOL! this was fun but harder than I thought it would be!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yeah<br />
<br />
I think it'll be smoother next time<br />
<br />
Libby says hello, and thanks you for staying on so long<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Patience, I am glad all of you have it.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Hi Libby!<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: water time...<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: tough topic too, so many ways to go.<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:57 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: kk<br />
<br />
Red suggests Google Talk next time<br />
<br />
as Skype was glitchy<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Something new...<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: and wonders how the chicken nuggets were<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I am a former Luddite here.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: Jack's all about installing new programs!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: I<br />
<br />
ah, my KB went away. I ate chicken Shu-Mai, the kids had the nuggets<br />
<br />
Sent at 12:00 AM on Saturday <br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: aww<br />
<br />
ok<br />
<br />
alright, signing out<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Later<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: g'bye!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has left.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt has left.<br />
<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
*[[Data_vs_sensory_perception]]<br />
*[[Perception Minutes]]<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/Perception_ChatPerception Chat2011-01-30T22:47:51Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>Download the original attachment<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: dropped me<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:28 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: Jake?<br />
<br />
there you are<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: back online<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: kk<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:29 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has left.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain.<br />
<br />
Jack: Funny<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: the web-trust disscussion reminded of that. HP is full of idealized interfaces.<br />
<br />
so is StarTrek TNG.<br />
<br />
comic sans! Argh!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: are you there willow?<br />
<br />
Jack: She dropped out a while ago I believe<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:49 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has joined.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sweet!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: got it!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has left.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has joined.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: can you see the history?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: no<br />
<br />
please forward it when everything's done<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: it's breif:<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Funny<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: the web-trust disscussion reminded of that. HP is full of idealized interfaces.<br />
<br />
so is StarTrek TNG.<br />
<br />
comic sans! argh!<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:46 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: are you there willow?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sweet thank you<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Perception versus imagination?<br />
<br />
or a cross between the two<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sort of<br />
<br />
you fill in perceptions<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: How do we avoid this?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: ooh<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: do you want to?<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Is it possible to do one hundred percent<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: I'll interject when I can<br />
<br />
for my own reference, we're at the 34:45 mark<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: doom vs. zork ?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: don't know zork<br />
<br />
relevent to discussion?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: a maze of twisty littla passages, all alike?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: ah<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Having that helping hand all the time could make us complacent or lazy.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: zork is text based<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:57 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: not quite what I was going for - I'm lagging the conversation. Zork is text based - it's all fill in by imagination.<br />
<br />
ah good!<br />
<br />
LOL!<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:59 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Katamari Damacy syndrome - want to roll up real things<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes. listening to soundtrack is dangerous in the car<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: LOL<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I am so lost when it comes to games. One of my downfalls.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: not a downfall<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: I don't play them but gamers are interesting people.<br />
<br />
My dad is a big gamer<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I was a controller thrower as a child. I never recovered, and it bled over into everyother game: board, card, etc.<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:03 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: actually gamers a good case studies for this - they totally immerse themselves and I'll bet that effect their view of the world when the surface again.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Books can have the same effect.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: totally<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes<br />
<br />
romance novels are an experience, not good literature<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: have you read Diana Gabaldon's Outlander? is both.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Action and questing. Tolkien King<br />
<br />
No I haven't<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Couldn't we incorporate the buddhist definition of awareness into our daily life, so that we stay aware of the things around us.<br />
<br />
Mindfulness<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:08 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: many cases of drivers following gps into bad situations<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:09 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: LOL! I got lost in Seattle a couple of days ago because I used my iPhone like a GPS. The direction I walked was determined by the orientation it came out of my pocket! <br />
<br />
I was thinging of other things - distracted.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: hee<br />
<br />
and thank you for keeping up chatting in here<br />
<br />
the total effect will be better if I'm getting feedback in here as well<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: it's hard!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: I know<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: We should be, dare I say, trained at an early age to use what natural sense we have.<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:13 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: hehehe<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:14 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: and success in the marketplace -evolution of the interface itself!<br />
<br />
call dropped<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: yes<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sorry<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Not your fault! you on Windows?<br />
<br />
Blame Bill Gates!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: I'm on a Mac<br />
<br />
but the RAM needs to be replaced<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: damn steve<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Linux here nooo problems! XD<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: fucking Steve<br />
<br />
what kind of rapper name is Steve?<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: s t to the eve<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sorry, Flight of the Concords reference<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: dropped again - gonna go get a drink - brb<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: arg<br />
<br />
fixing<br />
<br />
kk<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Thanks<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: Jake, let me know when you're back<br />
<br />
Jack, sure thing<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: I'm back.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: wb<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:22 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: any points?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: getting back into the convo<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: kk<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Response first adrenalyn later<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:25 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: i think part of the response is the adrenalin<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I knew that I spelled that wrong. Hehe<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: i can't spell for crap<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Yes!<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:27 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: "Fight or flight" but so much of our world requires "chill" which our bodies don't know how to do.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: A lot of times that is correct.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: result is stress.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Practice?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: that basically right<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: ok<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: or when someone give you a hand massage.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Desensitizing<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: But is that good or bad, in the long run?<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:32 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Are they luring you in for something bad though?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: how much do you trust the source of data?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: You been watch too many hollywood movies Jack!<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:35 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: No such thing as old dogs!<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:36 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:36 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: 1:18":00<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Plenty of films. But I have seen a lot of ne'er-do-wells that try to sucker you.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: (sorry, reference)<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Cultural difference i.e. Japanese UI design drives westerners crazy.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Seals and Crofts?<br />
<br />
Nevermind<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: <br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Bah!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: bah what?<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I know that there is something else, but some of us like television more than interactivity.<br />
<br />
In game format that is<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: is good<br />
<br />
I understand<br />
<br />
it gives stories, things to talk about, etc<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I like thinking of life as an RPG.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: we should talk about that sometime<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: ;or when we are playing LJ or Myspace <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: yes!<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Myspace ads me Stephen King constantly!<br />
<br />
It's sentient<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: The Goog is scary smart<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: hee<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: it means that the understand people, not you in particular.<br />
<br />
that how I wrote my college papers.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: hee<br />
<br />
yes<br />
<br />
is that your closing remark, Jake<br />
<br />
?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: hehe, I don't know that I really have one -<br />
<br />
hehehe!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: noooo worries<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Thanks for including me. Even this chat window is an amazing inclusion.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yay!<br />
<br />
Thank you so much for joining, Jack<br />
<br />
it means a lot<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: OK: You have to make decision about what to trust, if you trust nothing your won't make progress.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: I'll post to the LJ and we can chat more<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Academy?<br />
<br />
Interesting<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: What you trust<br />
<br />
Thanks everyone!<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:52 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: Thank you Sean!<br />
<br />
er<br />
<br />
Jake<br />
<br />
and Jack!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Sean<br />
<br />
to you.<br />
<br />
me: Thank you<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: well<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt is typing…<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: LOL! this was fun but harder than I thought it would be!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yeah<br />
<br />
I think it'll be smoother next time<br />
<br />
Libby says hello, and thanks you for staying on so long<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Patience, I am glad all of you have it.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Hi Libby!<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: water time...<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: tough topic too, so many ways to go.<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:57 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: kk<br />
<br />
Red suggests Google Talk next time<br />
<br />
as Skype was glitchy<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Something new...<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: and wonders how the chicken nuggets were<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I am a former Luddite here.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: Jack's all about installing new programs!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: I<br />
<br />
ah, my KB went away. I ate chicken Shu-Mai, the kids had the nuggets<br />
<br />
Sent at 12:00 AM on Saturday <br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: aww<br />
<br />
ok<br />
<br />
alright, signing out<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Later<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: g'bye!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has left.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt has left.<br />
<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
*[[Data_vs_sensory_perception]]<br />
*[[Perception Minutes]]<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/Perception_ChatPerception Chat2011-01-30T22:47:26Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with 'Download the original attachment Jake von Slatt: dropped me Sent at 10:28 PM on Friday Willow Bloo: Jake? there you are Jake von Slatt: back online Willow Bloo: kk Sen…'</p>
<hr />
<div>Download the original attachment<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: dropped me<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:28 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: Jake?<br />
<br />
there you are<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: back online<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: kk<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:29 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has left.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain.<br />
<br />
Jack: Funny<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: the web-trust disscussion reminded of that. HP is full of idealized interfaces.<br />
<br />
so is StarTrek TNG.<br />
<br />
comic sans! Argh!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: are you there willow?<br />
<br />
Jack: She dropped out a while ago I believe<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:49 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has joined.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sweet!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: got it!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has left.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has joined.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: can you see the history?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: no<br />
<br />
please forward it when everything's done<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: it's breif:<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Funny<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: the web-trust disscussion reminded of that. HP is full of idealized interfaces.<br />
<br />
so is StarTrek TNG.<br />
<br />
comic sans! argh!<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:46 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: are you there willow?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sweet thank you<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Perception versus imagination?<br />
<br />
or a cross between the two<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sort of<br />
<br />
you fill in perceptions<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: How do we avoid this?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: ooh<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: do you want to?<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Is it possible to do one hundred percent<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: I'll interject when I can<br />
<br />
for my own reference, we're at the 34:45 mark<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: doom vs. zork ?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: don't know zork<br />
<br />
relevent to discussion?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: a maze of twisty littla passages, all alike?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: ah<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Having that helping hand all the time could make us complacent or lazy.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: zork is text based<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:57 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: not quite what I was going for - I'm lagging the conversation. Zork is text based - it's all fill in by imagination.<br />
<br />
ah good!<br />
<br />
LOL!<br />
<br />
Sent at 10:59 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Katamari Damacy syndrome - want to roll up real things<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes. listening to soundtrack is dangerous in the car<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: LOL<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I am so lost when it comes to games. One of my downfalls.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: not a downfall<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: I don't play them but gamers are interesting people.<br />
<br />
My dad is a big gamer<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I was a controller thrower as a child. I never recovered, and it bled over into everyother game: board, card, etc.<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:03 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: actually gamers a good case studies for this - they totally immerse themselves and I'll bet that effect their view of the world when the surface again.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Books can have the same effect.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: totally<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes<br />
<br />
romance novels are an experience, not good literature<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: have you read Diana Gabaldon's Outlander? is both.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Action and questing. Tolkien King<br />
<br />
No I haven't<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Couldn't we incorporate the buddhist definition of awareness into our daily life, so that we stay aware of the things around us.<br />
<br />
Mindfulness<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:08 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: many cases of drivers following gps into bad situations<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:09 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: LOL! I got lost in Seattle a couple of days ago because I used my iPhone like a GPS. The direction I walked was determined by the orientation it came out of my pocket! <br />
<br />
I was thinging of other things - distracted.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: hee<br />
<br />
and thank you for keeping up chatting in here<br />
<br />
the total effect will be better if I'm getting feedback in here as well<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: it's hard!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: I know<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: We should be, dare I say, trained at an early age to use what natural sense we have.<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:13 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: hehehe<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:14 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: and success in the marketplace -evolution of the interface itself!<br />
<br />
call dropped<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: yes<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sorry<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Not your fault! you on Windows?<br />
<br />
Blame Bill Gates!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: I'm on a Mac<br />
<br />
but the RAM needs to be replaced<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: damn steve<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Linux here nooo problems! XD<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: fucking Steve<br />
<br />
what kind of rapper name is Steve?<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: s t to the eve<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: sorry, Flight of the Concords reference<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: dropped again - gonna go get a drink - brb<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: arg<br />
<br />
fixing<br />
<br />
kk<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Thanks<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: Jake, let me know when you're back<br />
<br />
Jack, sure thing<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: I'm back.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: wb<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:22 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: any points?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: getting back into the convo<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: kk<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Response first adrenalyn later<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:25 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: i think part of the response is the adrenalin<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I knew that I spelled that wrong. Hehe<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: i can't spell for crap<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Yes!<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:27 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: "Fight or flight" but so much of our world requires "chill" which our bodies don't know how to do.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: A lot of times that is correct.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: result is stress.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Practice?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: that basically right<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: ok<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: or when someone give you a hand massage.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Desensitizing<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: But is that good or bad, in the long run?<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:32 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Are they luring you in for something bad though?<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: how much do you trust the source of data?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: You been watch too many hollywood movies Jack!<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:35 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: No such thing as old dogs!<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:36 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:36 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: 1:18":00<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Plenty of films. But I have seen a lot of ne'er-do-wells that try to sucker you.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: (sorry, reference)<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Cultural difference i.e. Japanese UI design drives westerners crazy.<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Seals and Crofts?<br />
<br />
Nevermind<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: <br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Bah!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: bah what?<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I know that there is something else, but some of us like television more than interactivity.<br />
<br />
In game format that is<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: is good<br />
<br />
I understand<br />
<br />
it gives stories, things to talk about, etc<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I like thinking of life as an RPG.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: we should talk about that sometime<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: ;or when we are playing LJ or Myspace <br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yes!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: yes!<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Myspace ads me Stephen King constantly!<br />
<br />
It's sentient<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: The Goog is scary smart<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: hee<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: it means that the understand people, not you in particular.<br />
<br />
that how I wrote my college papers.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: hee<br />
<br />
yes<br />
<br />
is that your closing remark, Jake<br />
<br />
?<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: hehe, I don't know that I really have one -<br />
<br />
hehehe!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: noooo worries<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Thanks for including me. Even this chat window is an amazing inclusion.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yay!<br />
<br />
Thank you so much for joining, Jack<br />
<br />
it means a lot<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: OK: You have to make decision about what to trust, if you trust nothing your won't make progress.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: I'll post to the LJ and we can chat more<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Academy?<br />
<br />
Interesting<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: What you trust<br />
<br />
Thanks everyone!<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:52 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: Thank you Sean!<br />
<br />
er<br />
<br />
Jake<br />
<br />
and Jack!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Sean<br />
<br />
to you.<br />
<br />
me: Thank you<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: well<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt is typing…<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: LOL! this was fun but harder than I thought it would be!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: yeah<br />
<br />
I think it'll be smoother next time<br />
<br />
Libby says hello, and thanks you for staying on so long<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Patience, I am glad all of you have it.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: Hi Libby!<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: water time...<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: tough topic too, so many ways to go.<br />
<br />
Sent at 11:57 PM on Friday<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: kk<br />
<br />
Red suggests Google Talk next time<br />
<br />
as Skype was glitchy<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Something new...<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: and wonders how the chicken nuggets were<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: I am a former Luddite here.<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: Jack's all about installing new programs!<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: I<br />
<br />
ah, my KB went away. I ate chicken Shu-Mai, the kids had the nuggets<br />
<br />
Sent at 12:00 AM on Saturday <br />
<br />
Willow Bloo: aww<br />
<br />
ok<br />
<br />
alright, signing out<br />
<br />
Jack Prince: Later<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: g'bye!<br />
<br />
Willow Bloo has left.<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt has left.<br />
<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
[[Data_vs_sensory_perception]]<br />
[[Perception Minutes]]<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/Perception_MinutesPerception Minutes2011-01-30T22:46:37Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>0:11 - 0:24 Introductions, set up<br />
<br />
0:54 Roadmap of discussion<br />
<br />
1:22 engineering our environment, filtering senses, decontextualization, not having to work as much, attitudes towards input whether it's been made for us or not; intermediary input through your body, design changing your environment around you, deliberate attention/meta programming; not about meat versus technology, what's the difference between senses taking in things because it's a learned response versus something that's completely designed; how is our selective attention changing? We're selectively not scanning web banners, how is that different from interacting with a forest, are you paying more or less attention to your classic senses? How do we create context/how do we deal with things out of context? Looking for firewood and looking for a file are becomming more similar - systems in which you're interacting; obligation that comes with thinking someone engineered something for you as opposed to Nature, don't have the same expectation that things are going to work for you<br />
<br />
9:37 do you think that's true?<br />
<br />
9:44 if people's refrigerators stopped working, they wouldn't know how to keep food cold<br />
<br />
10:05 you're not going to say The River dumped me, you don't think Goddamn Bill Gates, you think the computer did it; talking about the anthropomorphizing of the computer<br />
<br />
10:52 how willing are we to interact with things? What are we doing with the stuff around us? We don't really have a set definition for a Sense and what it is to take in and process data; how is our sense of the world around us changing?<br />
<br />
11:59 Spaciality and Temporality are manifesting through electronic interfaces; as the way we sense space and time has changed, the way we interact with the world has also changed; we can now remove something from its original context, it becomes a simulation; we get so much more information now than we ever have, and we pick and choose what we want to form our personal narrative<br />
<br />
13:58 We've always been surrounded by information, but we're good at pulling out what we need; there's so much going on in life that there's a lot of synchronicity if you look for it<br />
<br />
14:44 we have so much information that it sort of creates an a temporal sense of the world - everything is manufactured, is as if it just appeared where it was, you don't see where it's coming from<br />
<br />
15:13 you lose the context of it<br />
<br />
15:15 allows for endless freedom through multiplicity of direction, but also easy to get lost; there's nothing to connect to<br />
<br />
15:57 at the same time, you're always creating context; any time you see something and recognize it, your brain is equipped to process stored things (video, audio, etc)<br />
<br />
16:24 we have a lot of news sources now, determine where you get your information as opposed to when you only used your immediate senses for what's going on around you. Now worldview is tinted by where you get your news, what spin they put on it; creating own context for all the information you're getting<br />
<br />
18:00 [http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/seattle911/archives/152967.asp?source=mypi Red Square], readjusting context based on new information, what can you get out of it for yourself<br />
<br />
19:44 neat way to look at it - instead of having context taken away, we have ability to synthesize our own<br />
<br />
19:57 each source has its own context its trying to place on you as well, but by seeing the agenda of different sources you can compare and see what's at the base, where you want to be on it<br />
<br />
20:29 when you drive a car you can act with your senses or you can interact with the interface; because you're so used to synthesizing, are you more likely to say The Car Smells Funny or read the gauges?<br />
<br />
21:04 use both; when you're driving a car you don't think about where the information is coming from because you've been doing it for so long; when you first start driving you're acutely aware of where each bit of information is coming from because it takes so much effort to register it (look down from road to dials); through use you start to trust things more; to the point with the feeds he follows, he knows where things are coming from and can trust them more as opposed to just following links and not knowing what's a front for a spam site, etc; trust the things to do the things they're designed for<br />
<br />
22:44 presenting information in a way that has an agenda; all times have had context put on information, like the Church in Medieval times having control over the information coming out; knowledge produced with a certain group with a certain agenda, now we can seek out different sources, but a lot of people don't; seems to be threatening to humans to have a lack of context, there's comfort in having meaning already incorporated into the information you're receiving; a lot of people don't think about the interface they're receiving information through<br />
<br />
24:15 being around design people (or being one) makes you acutely aware of how design affects you. Massive Change is a [http://www.massivechange.com/ website], [http://www.massivechange.com/book book], [http://www.massivechange.com/exhibition art exhibit] that shows design is the way you view the world; we have this assumption that people who have nicely designed, easy to use websites are trustworthy, how are we choosing what to trust?<br />
From chat: Jake von Slatt: Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain.<br />
Jack: Funny <br />
<br />
25:41 trying to trust things by only having one story, creating mythology; trusting your senses instead of trusting what people are telling you<br />
<br />
26:19 in order to find the spin you like, you have to go through a lot of information to get there, the stories other people were telling didn't match the personal experience, then bring the outside information in to support your own take<br />
<br />
28:05 when you're looking for other bits of information to explain an out-of-context event it's like finding meaning; we always want to put things together coherently, we don't want to find the sources, we want to understand it<br />
<br />
28:59 when are you looking at things and analyzing them, and when are you experiencing things viscerally? Difference between getting information from data and info from bodily senses is that when it's an online source (for example), you question where the information is coming from, what it means, etc.. whereas if it's your hand, you touched it, you know it; is there a way to process data viscerally<br />
<br />
29:39 critically versus viscerally comes down to how the information is presented, how it is designed determines how closely you connect to it<br />
<br />
30:26 you get a response and internalize it even if it's not visceral<br />
<br />
29:50 violent episode, degrees of separation: if you're there, if you read about it in the newspaper, if you visit the website that has interviews with family of the victim, or see security camera footage.. all different ways of getting information, just different levels of visceral<br />
<br />
31:42 many people don't know they need to seek stuff out<br />
<br />
31:48 how much our brains make up of what we experience, fill in the gaps; difference between live performance and a recording. When you're experiencing something you're putting your own spin on it, when you know you can experience it again you can concentrate on certain points, desensitizes you; when you're in the moment all you can think about is the moment<br />
<br />
32:46 the way visual stuff works, we don't know how completely; [http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.psych.60.110707.163604 mirror effect and empathy], if you have connections to what you're watching due to previous experience you're more likely to relate to it<br />
<br />
33:49 individuals are going to have reactions to any kind of sensation based on their history of interactions<br />
<br />
34:11 object recognition, what happens when you're recognizing objects in an immersive game where it's designed to be recognized and interacted with as opposed to pulling specifically from your previous interactions with the world - being in a world where everything is made to be recognized versus being in a world where things are not necessarily being made for your abilities<br />
From Chat: Jack Prince: Perception versus imagination?<br />
or a cross between the two<br />
Willow Bloo: sort of<br />
you fill in perceptions<br />
Jack Prince: How do we avoid this?<br />
Willow Bloo: ooh<br />
Jake von Slatt: do you want to?<br />
Jack Prince: Is it possible to do one hundred percent<br />
<br />
34:56 they're simulacra, a tree looks like a tree because it represents a tree<br />
<br />
35:04 what's the effect of constantly wandering around in a simulacra?<br />
<br />
35:11 games that are made for kids, if you don't know where to go, hints through mouse-overs; reduces need to interact with everything sitting on the table, things that aren't nailed down, only taking in that data set<br />
<br />
36:07 how is that different than a Parkour lesson, where someone tells you a wall is climbable?<br />
<br />
36:12 then there is experience behind it<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_(video_game) doom] vs. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zork zork] ?<br />
Willow Bloo: don't know zork<br />
relevent to discussion?<br />
Jake von Slatt: a maze of twisty littla passages, all alike?<br />
Willow Bloo: ah<br />
Jack Prince: Having that helping hand all the time could make us complacent or lazy.<br />
Jake von Slatt: zork is text based <br />
<br />
36:23 Sean from chat, Doom versus Zork; different level of interaction<br />
<br />
36:24 Zork is you figuring out how to interact with things, Doom is very specific in what you can do and not do<br />
<br />
37:09 Jack in chat then asks, does having that hand make us complacent?<br />
<br />
37:12 yes<br />
<br />
37:15 depends on the context of the situation<br />
<br />
37:17 you're not needing to think about what to do<br />
<br />
37:22 that's the way the game is set up<br />
<br />
37:24 if anything, having that hand means the game is being complacent or lazy because the game is not set up for everything to be interactive, so they have to point out what is<br />
<br />
36:45 otherwise it's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katamari Katamari]<br />
<br />
36:47 so you point out what is able to be interacted with<br />
<br />
37:59 two versions of Zork, text based and GUI based; text are very difficult because you have to interact with the description<br />
<br />
38:51 Abram joins us<br />
<br />
39:04 text adventure games because you never know what will work, high level of interactivity because you have to do a lot more poking per object instead of it being easy to figure out; adds an extra layer to the world where your backpack is your inventory, gave an obsession with interactivity in the same way parkour does<br />
<br />
39:59 overlap between data perception and sensory, when you play a game too much your finger twitches when you want to do something in the 'real' world, the overlap between data reaction and actual interaction<br />
<br />
49:48 [http://www.secondskinfilm.com/ Second Skin] documentary about WoW addicts, as you interact with a game 14 hours a day it changes the neuroplasticity of the brain, the simulation becomes more real, manifestations of fantasies that they're not having fulfilled in life; is this healthy? or just representing a handicap, not taking responsibility to fulfill risk in life<br />
<br />
42:38 but then people file police reports when their characters are killed, emotional attachment, so there is risk<br />
<br />
42:49 but not the same level of risk<br />
<br />
42:54 with brain adapting to new environments, talk about incorporating new senses?<br />
<br />
43:02 soon we're going to get fuzzier on where is the data and where are your senses; MIT blocks, moving them determines what you're doing, tilting your iPhone as an interface, shake the nano to shuffle, getting back to original interactions instead of hand on a mouse<br />
<br />
43:56 marble answering machine being a tactile experience instead of flat technology; the more we build our technology to suit things we already understand the better we are at interacting with it, and we're also getting better at interacting with technology as technology; how does having oxygen technology that you don't have to think about change the way you interact with the world?<br />
<br />
45:30 we change the way we interact based on tools available to us; how we research things if you only have access to books versus keyword searches, two hours of work now done in 20 minutes; get in habit of just skimming, eliminating stuff in the way of information you want, thinking in short bursts instead of long interrupted strings<br />
<br />
46:52 what if you spent the same amount of time on the paper you're writing using new tools, get an even better paper instead of just saving time<br />
<br />
47:16 with the amount of information available now, you just run into repetition and regurgitation<br />
<br />
47:21 immersive nature of that, just like with senses and not paying attention to what you're processing, do you do the same thing with data? And what happens to our fact checking as instead of interacting with the technology we're interacting with the environment through technology: HUDs, GPS, RFID readings<br />
<br />
48:22 there comes a point where we have to trust it, and sometimes it's wrong but it's still giving me information; but if you're in an unfamiliar environment and you're using GPS you have to trust it<br />
<br />
49:03 but what's changed with that? you have to trust gravity that you're not going to fall<br />
<br />
49:18 when I'm in the wild and i have a map and a compass I can compare what's on th map to what's in front of me<br />
<br />
49:39 the GPS tells you you're somewhere that your experiences should lend to letting you know if it's right or not<br />
<br />
49:55 difference between error on a map and error on GPS versus an illusion where you see a mountain as being closer than it is<br />
<br />
50:15 GPS being wrong; who is in control of the information? it's not the issue of the data but who's putting it out there; if we just have data handed to us then our minds will atrophy; without proper input you won't perform in a certain way<br />
<br />
51:30 people who already do that, won't create more who do<br />
<br />
51:41 some people think evolution is static, your brain is not static, it changes if you use it<br />
<br />
52:51 your genes are the cards you're dealt, socialization is how you play the cards, but your social adaptations actually change your genes, which are passed on to your children; how is that relating to how we process the environments we're constructing?<br />
<br />
53:33 unless it affects your ability to use MySpace to get laid, will it really affect your genetic output?<br />
<br />
53:49 simple and complex nature, complexity hands you how to deal with things, makes you complacent; if it's simple and easy people get confused<br />
<br />
54:32 good design and bad design<br />
<br />
54:37 who's in control of the information<br />
<br />
54:50 easy to find certain settings and fundamental pieces for your laptop, other things are difficult to locate; things the average user should be able to find are easy to locate, things you shouldn't get into unless you know what you're doing are more buried<br />
<br />
55:25 evolution thing, we're the first generation that grew up with computers, they're intuitive; older people view it as too difficult<br />
<br />
55:51 open doorway with grandma to talk her through things on the computer<br />
<br />
56:15 what do you do when your data and senses sync breaks down? When your GPS isn't saying you are where you are, what do you do? Abandon the data and just use senses or do you troubleshoot more?<br />
<br />
56:39 I don't think we distinguish between abstract data and sensory data, you just interact with things without thinking about things after you've dealt with them for awhile, don't think it's different than any other source of data we've ever dealt with in history<br />
<br />
57:43 that's why it's natural versus designed because it's the only meaningful distinction at that point<br />
<br />
58:00 depends entirely on context of situation; you don't realize you're using a hammer until you hit your thumb, until then it's an extension of self<br />
<br />
59:02 pure procedural processing, nothing declarative about it<br />
<br />
59:06 so follow GPS until it starts to go wrong, and then you think of it as a GPS unit and you start analyzing it instead of just using it as a stream of information<br />
<br />
59:34 that's the level of interaction a lot of people that want to give you information are reaching for; how many websites do you not know which is an ad and which is a legit link? doing that actively; suspension of disbelief while watching a movie, snapping out of it, incorporating adverts<br />
<br />
1:00:43 taking information, using everything you have to reconstruct what's going on in the world around you, and at some point your body stops and your environment begins, it's just about processing; Transhumanism to me is there is no fundamental difference between suiting up in things that alter how you see your environment and actually changing your environment; the question that started this discussion for me, what's the difference between having RFID tags on everything and having fancy goggles that tell you what things are? Still getting data feedback about everything<br />
<br />
1:01:47 it's about the lag time; photoshop and creativity, less lag means what you want to do more closely matches what you intended<br />
<br />
1:02:21 if you click on something and it doesn't immediately respond there's the breakdown (like the the GPS/actuality)<br />
<br />
1:02:34 lag with direct stimulation of pain in the brain as opposed to less lag when you're actually experiencing it<br />
<br />
1:03:29 lag and visceral idea, [http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2007/10/09 RadioLab thing on emotional reactions], you're not just reacting to your environment through your head, your body gets the signal first, so you're processing to how your body is reacting as well as when information your 'brain' is getting; body as context as well as your environment as context<br />
<br />
1:04:23 feedback loop between what your body is experiencing and what your brain is doing; is your body going through something and your brain is coming up with an emotional response or are you having an emotional response and then matching it with bodily reactions<br />
<br />
1:04:44 philisophical "what's real?"<br />
<br />
1:05:11 whole other conversation<br />
<br />
from chat: Jack Prince: Response first adrenalin later <br />
<br />
1:05:16 cockroach is running when you turn on the lights even before it knows its running; Nathan's experience at the dentist<br />
<br />
1:05:34 Nathan's story about just having a bodily response with no emotional context, having it explained meant being able to control bodily response<br />
<br />
1:06:32 pure experience of one without the other<br />
<br />
1:06:57 control bodily reaction when you have context<br />
<br />
1:07:12 difference between stage fright and anticipation of desperately wanting to be on stage, it's how you interpret the reaction<br />
<br />
1:07:42 how you import the data, interpret it, how you perceive things; trying to find meaning<br />
<br />
1:08:11 [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3852/is_200401/ai_n9374507 shaky bridge experiment], romantic feelings increasing after being in a dangerous situation; associate you with the feelings they're having<br />
<br />
1:09:10 how does that affect your idea of data processing? created senses?<br />
<br />
from chat: Jake von Slatt: "Fight or flight" but so much of our world requires "chill" which our bodies don't know how to do.<br />
Jack Prince: A lot of times that is correct.<br />
Willow Bloo: yes!<br />
Jake von Slatt: result is stress. <br />
<br />
1:09:36 Jake says, fight or flight, but our current world requires chill, which we don't know how to do; when we're looking at what's happening in Dubai we're supposed to remain calm, we create different contexts in order to respond the way we're 'supposed to'<br />
<br />
1:10:17 Pseumatic Marker Affect, long emotional time to react to the event, triggers response every time you're at the corner; browser doesn't have lag time to develop an emotional response, so you just absorb images but don't have emotional response to build up, get desensitized<br />
<br />
1:11:12 what determines that desensitization? as you interpret it differently; difficulty distinguishing between truth and fiction<br />
<br />
1:11:51 personal experience changing how you interpret things<br />
<br />
1:12:02 in dreams, you can experience things like you're there; ability to empathize based on previous experience<br />
<br />
1:12:25 easy to learn something if it's based on previous context, otherwise it's rote memorization first to create the context and then you add on<br />
<br />
1:12:37 empathy as a skill, you're better at it if you use it; person crying on sidewalk being ignored because you have to be to work or do you sit down and figure out what's going on?<br />
<br />
1:13:21 click the link!<br />
<br />
1:13:24 does the pointer change shape as you hover over them?<br />
<br />
1:13:28 you are exceptional in sitting down with them<br />
<br />
1:13:37 just as an example<br />
<br />
1:13:44 it's a lot about choice, what do you choose to spend time on, that alters your response; opting in and out of interpretations<br />
<br />
1:14:07 reframing to deal with anxiety, dealing with planes because of something that didn't have to do with planes but happened on one<br />
<br />
1:14:42 meta programming<br />
<br />
1:14:46 there is a choice in how you do things<br />
<br />
1:15:04 multiplicity in how we deal with information, through science we know how we deal with things can change, and that changes us; brain is plastic<br />
<br />
1:15:39 make or break anything, imagination to see what you do, fill in blanks; if you don't use it it atrophies<br />
<br />
1:16:15 and then it's Fox News<br />
<br />
1:16:20 using different sources to see what spin is going on, filter through agendas<br />
<br />
1:17:18 when dealing with actual versus designed worlds, how much do you get to impose your own framing? More or less confident going into what someone else has designed? You know someone has constructed it so do you look out for it more?<br />
<br />
1:17:34 in the natural world you don't have data providers, designed world everything has an agenda, still be able to reframe<br />
<br />
1:18:04 concept of authority, the first time a human asked another human "what do you feel about this?"<br />
<br />
1:18:26 ethical issues; tv with 10 minute narrative of the world, try to paste that into your world and what it means to you, don't have freedom to go out and explore sources; don't have time, or leisure time spend exploring sources<br />
<br />
1:19:17 [http://www.warrenellis.com/?p=5885 Gin and the Cognitive Surplus] (Clay Shirky), interactive society - building wiki instead of watch TV<br />
<br />
1:20:00 some people don't know there are other options<br />
<br />
1:20:12 what does it mean to trust your senses when you're in an interactive game?<br />
<br />
1:20:20 other senses beyond the 5 we usually think of<br />
<br />
1:20:27 we're all smart enough to know we lead a pretty meta experience, we're all always kind of in an interactive game. You can go through a day where all you do is respond instead of analyzing it; whether in life or in WoW we're presented with information and we respond to it whether or not we are paying attention to it<br />
<br />
1:21:45 simulation becomes just as real as reality<br />
<br />
1:21:49 we can rely on senses in immersive video gaming because our senses help us predict patterns and so we have things we can expect as a consequence of actions; that's the overlap<br />
<br />
1:22:25 we are pattern seeking beings<br />
<br />
1:22:28 we change patterns to step out of cycles<br />
<br />
1:22:43 we're constructing patterns, those patterns are changing<br />
<br />
1:22:56 patterns of advertising allow us to skip them<br />
<br />
1:23:00 we can see the manipulations so clearly<br />
<br />
1:23:07 word of mouth as best advertising because we skip everything else, advertising learning you, data mining<br />
<br />
1:24:11 also noting what you click on and what you don't, detect trends, behavioral pattern of a group<br />
<br />
1:25:27 closing remarks<br />
<br />
1:25:52 "every technological extension is a biological amputation"<br />
<br />
1:26:13 medium is the message (or medium is the massage); studying telecommunications completely desensitizes you to being influenced by mediums<br />
<br />
1:27:32 tangent<br />
<br />
1:30:34 Jake's final point is that you have to make a decisions about what to trust, if you don't trust anything you won't make any process<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
*[[Data_vs_sensory_perception]]<br />
*[[Perception Chat]]<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/Perception_MinutesPerception Minutes2011-01-30T22:46:11Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '0:11 - 0:24 Introductions, set up 0:54 Roadmap of discussion 1:22 engineering our environment, filtering senses, decontextualization, not having to work as much, attitudes towa…'</p>
<hr />
<div>0:11 - 0:24 Introductions, set up<br />
<br />
0:54 Roadmap of discussion<br />
<br />
1:22 engineering our environment, filtering senses, decontextualization, not having to work as much, attitudes towards input whether it's been made for us or not; intermediary input through your body, design changing your environment around you, deliberate attention/meta programming; not about meat versus technology, what's the difference between senses taking in things because it's a learned response versus something that's completely designed; how is our selective attention changing? We're selectively not scanning web banners, how is that different from interacting with a forest, are you paying more or less attention to your classic senses? How do we create context/how do we deal with things out of context? Looking for firewood and looking for a file are becomming more similar - systems in which you're interacting; obligation that comes with thinking someone engineered something for you as opposed to Nature, don't have the same expectation that things are going to work for you<br />
<br />
9:37 do you think that's true?<br />
<br />
9:44 if people's refrigerators stopped working, they wouldn't know how to keep food cold<br />
<br />
10:05 you're not going to say The River dumped me, you don't think Goddamn Bill Gates, you think the computer did it; talking about the anthropomorphizing of the computer<br />
<br />
10:52 how willing are we to interact with things? What are we doing with the stuff around us? We don't really have a set definition for a Sense and what it is to take in and process data; how is our sense of the world around us changing?<br />
<br />
11:59 Spaciality and Temporality are manifesting through electronic interfaces; as the way we sense space and time has changed, the way we interact with the world has also changed; we can now remove something from its original context, it becomes a simulation; we get so much more information now than we ever have, and we pick and choose what we want to form our personal narrative<br />
<br />
13:58 We've always been surrounded by information, but we're good at pulling out what we need; there's so much going on in life that there's a lot of synchronicity if you look for it<br />
<br />
14:44 we have so much information that it sort of creates an a temporal sense of the world - everything is manufactured, is as if it just appeared where it was, you don't see where it's coming from<br />
<br />
15:13 you lose the context of it<br />
<br />
15:15 allows for endless freedom through multiplicity of direction, but also easy to get lost; there's nothing to connect to<br />
<br />
15:57 at the same time, you're always creating context; any time you see something and recognize it, your brain is equipped to process stored things (video, audio, etc)<br />
<br />
16:24 we have a lot of news sources now, determine where you get your information as opposed to when you only used your immediate senses for what's going on around you. Now worldview is tinted by where you get your news, what spin they put on it; creating own context for all the information you're getting<br />
<br />
18:00 [http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/seattle911/archives/152967.asp?source=mypi Red Square], readjusting context based on new information, what can you get out of it for yourself<br />
<br />
19:44 neat way to look at it - instead of having context taken away, we have ability to synthesize our own<br />
<br />
19:57 each source has its own context its trying to place on you as well, but by seeing the agenda of different sources you can compare and see what's at the base, where you want to be on it<br />
<br />
20:29 when you drive a car you can act with your senses or you can interact with the interface; because you're so used to synthesizing, are you more likely to say The Car Smells Funny or read the gauges?<br />
<br />
21:04 use both; when you're driving a car you don't think about where the information is coming from because you've been doing it for so long; when you first start driving you're acutely aware of where each bit of information is coming from because it takes so much effort to register it (look down from road to dials); through use you start to trust things more; to the point with the feeds he follows, he knows where things are coming from and can trust them more as opposed to just following links and not knowing what's a front for a spam site, etc; trust the things to do the things they're designed for<br />
<br />
22:44 presenting information in a way that has an agenda; all times have had context put on information, like the Church in Medieval times having control over the information coming out; knowledge produced with a certain group with a certain agenda, now we can seek out different sources, but a lot of people don't; seems to be threatening to humans to have a lack of context, there's comfort in having meaning already incorporated into the information you're receiving; a lot of people don't think about the interface they're receiving information through<br />
<br />
24:15 being around design people (or being one) makes you acutely aware of how design affects you. Massive Change is a [http://www.massivechange.com/ website], [http://www.massivechange.com/book book], [http://www.massivechange.com/exhibition art exhibit] that shows design is the way you view the world; we have this assumption that people who have nicely designed, easy to use websites are trustworthy, how are we choosing what to trust?<br />
From chat: Jake von Slatt: Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain.<br />
Jack: Funny <br />
<br />
25:41 trying to trust things by only having one story, creating mythology; trusting your senses instead of trusting what people are telling you<br />
<br />
26:19 in order to find the spin you like, you have to go through a lot of information to get there, the stories other people were telling didn't match the personal experience, then bring the outside information in to support your own take<br />
<br />
28:05 when you're looking for other bits of information to explain an out-of-context event it's like finding meaning; we always want to put things together coherently, we don't want to find the sources, we want to understand it<br />
<br />
28:59 when are you looking at things and analyzing them, and when are you experiencing things viscerally? Difference between getting information from data and info from bodily senses is that when it's an online source (for example), you question where the information is coming from, what it means, etc.. whereas if it's your hand, you touched it, you know it; is there a way to process data viscerally<br />
<br />
29:39 critically versus viscerally comes down to how the information is presented, how it is designed determines how closely you connect to it<br />
<br />
30:26 you get a response and internalize it even if it's not visceral<br />
<br />
29:50 violent episode, degrees of separation: if you're there, if you read about it in the newspaper, if you visit the website that has interviews with family of the victim, or see security camera footage.. all different ways of getting information, just different levels of visceral<br />
<br />
31:42 many people don't know they need to seek stuff out<br />
<br />
31:48 how much our brains make up of what we experience, fill in the gaps; difference between live performance and a recording. When you're experiencing something you're putting your own spin on it, when you know you can experience it again you can concentrate on certain points, desensitizes you; when you're in the moment all you can think about is the moment<br />
<br />
32:46 the way visual stuff works, we don't know how completely; [http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.psych.60.110707.163604 mirror effect and empathy], if you have connections to what you're watching due to previous experience you're more likely to relate to it<br />
<br />
33:49 individuals are going to have reactions to any kind of sensation based on their history of interactions<br />
<br />
34:11 object recognition, what happens when you're recognizing objects in an immersive game where it's designed to be recognized and interacted with as opposed to pulling specifically from your previous interactions with the world - being in a world where everything is made to be recognized versus being in a world where things are not necessarily being made for your abilities<br />
From Chat: Jack Prince: Perception versus imagination?<br />
or a cross between the two<br />
Willow Bloo: sort of<br />
you fill in perceptions<br />
Jack Prince: How do we avoid this?<br />
Willow Bloo: ooh<br />
Jake von Slatt: do you want to?<br />
Jack Prince: Is it possible to do one hundred percent<br />
<br />
34:56 they're simulacra, a tree looks like a tree because it represents a tree<br />
<br />
35:04 what's the effect of constantly wandering around in a simulacra?<br />
<br />
35:11 games that are made for kids, if you don't know where to go, hints through mouse-overs; reduces need to interact with everything sitting on the table, things that aren't nailed down, only taking in that data set<br />
<br />
36:07 how is that different than a Parkour lesson, where someone tells you a wall is climbable?<br />
<br />
36:12 then there is experience behind it<br />
<br />
Jake von Slatt: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_(video_game) doom] vs. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zork zork] ?<br />
Willow Bloo: don't know zork<br />
relevent to discussion?<br />
Jake von Slatt: a maze of twisty littla passages, all alike?<br />
Willow Bloo: ah<br />
Jack Prince: Having that helping hand all the time could make us complacent or lazy.<br />
Jake von Slatt: zork is text based <br />
<br />
36:23 Sean from chat, Doom versus Zork; different level of interaction<br />
<br />
36:24 Zork is you figuring out how to interact with things, Doom is very specific in what you can do and not do<br />
<br />
37:09 Jack in chat then asks, does having that hand make us complacent?<br />
<br />
37:12 yes<br />
<br />
37:15 depends on the context of the situation<br />
<br />
37:17 you're not needing to think about what to do<br />
<br />
37:22 that's the way the game is set up<br />
<br />
37:24 if anything, having that hand means the game is being complacent or lazy because the game is not set up for everything to be interactive, so they have to point out what is<br />
<br />
36:45 otherwise it's [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katamari Katamari]<br />
<br />
36:47 so you point out what is able to be interacted with<br />
<br />
37:59 two versions of Zork, text based and GUI based; text are very difficult because you have to interact with the description<br />
<br />
38:51 Abram joins us<br />
<br />
39:04 text adventure games because you never know what will work, high level of interactivity because you have to do a lot more poking per object instead of it being easy to figure out; adds an extra layer to the world where your backpack is your inventory, gave an obsession with interactivity in the same way parkour does<br />
<br />
39:59 overlap between data perception and sensory, when you play a game too much your finger twitches when you want to do something in the 'real' world, the overlap between data reaction and actual interaction<br />
<br />
49:48 [http://www.secondskinfilm.com/ Second Skin] documentary about WoW addicts, as you interact with a game 14 hours a day it changes the neuroplasticity of the brain, the simulation becomes more real, manifestations of fantasies that they're not having fulfilled in life; is this healthy? or just representing a handicap, not taking responsibility to fulfill risk in life<br />
<br />
42:38 but then people file police reports when their characters are killed, emotional attachment, so there is risk<br />
<br />
42:49 but not the same level of risk<br />
<br />
42:54 with brain adapting to new environments, talk about incorporating new senses?<br />
<br />
43:02 soon we're going to get fuzzier on where is the data and where are your senses; MIT blocks, moving them determines what you're doing, tilting your iPhone as an interface, shake the nano to shuffle, getting back to original interactions instead of hand on a mouse<br />
<br />
43:56 marble answering machine being a tactile experience instead of flat technology; the more we build our technology to suit things we already understand the better we are at interacting with it, and we're also getting better at interacting with technology as technology; how does having oxygen technology that you don't have to think about change the way you interact with the world?<br />
<br />
45:30 we change the way we interact based on tools available to us; how we research things if you only have access to books versus keyword searches, two hours of work now done in 20 minutes; get in habit of just skimming, eliminating stuff in the way of information you want, thinking in short bursts instead of long interrupted strings<br />
<br />
46:52 what if you spent the same amount of time on the paper you're writing using new tools, get an even better paper instead of just saving time<br />
<br />
47:16 with the amount of information available now, you just run into repetition and regurgitation<br />
<br />
47:21 immersive nature of that, just like with senses and not paying attention to what you're processing, do you do the same thing with data? And what happens to our fact checking as instead of interacting with the technology we're interacting with the environment through technology: HUDs, GPS, RFID readings<br />
<br />
48:22 there comes a point where we have to trust it, and sometimes it's wrong but it's still giving me information; but if you're in an unfamiliar environment and you're using GPS you have to trust it<br />
<br />
49:03 but what's changed with that? you have to trust gravity that you're not going to fall<br />
<br />
49:18 when I'm in the wild and i have a map and a compass I can compare what's on th map to what's in front of me<br />
<br />
49:39 the GPS tells you you're somewhere that your experiences should lend to letting you know if it's right or not<br />
<br />
49:55 difference between error on a map and error on GPS versus an illusion where you see a mountain as being closer than it is<br />
<br />
50:15 GPS being wrong; who is in control of the information? it's not the issue of the data but who's putting it out there; if we just have data handed to us then our minds will atrophy; without proper input you won't perform in a certain way<br />
<br />
51:30 people who already do that, won't create more who do<br />
<br />
51:41 some people think evolution is static, your brain is not static, it changes if you use it<br />
<br />
52:51 your genes are the cards you're dealt, socialization is how you play the cards, but your social adaptations actually change your genes, which are passed on to your children; how is that relating to how we process the environments we're constructing?<br />
<br />
53:33 unless it affects your ability to use MySpace to get laid, will it really affect your genetic output?<br />
<br />
53:49 simple and complex nature, complexity hands you how to deal with things, makes you complacent; if it's simple and easy people get confused<br />
<br />
54:32 good design and bad design<br />
<br />
54:37 who's in control of the information<br />
<br />
54:50 easy to find certain settings and fundamental pieces for your laptop, other things are difficult to locate; things the average user should be able to find are easy to locate, things you shouldn't get into unless you know what you're doing are more buried<br />
<br />
55:25 evolution thing, we're the first generation that grew up with computers, they're intuitive; older people view it as too difficult<br />
<br />
55:51 open doorway with grandma to talk her through things on the computer<br />
<br />
56:15 what do you do when your data and senses sync breaks down? When your GPS isn't saying you are where you are, what do you do? Abandon the data and just use senses or do you troubleshoot more?<br />
<br />
56:39 I don't think we distinguish between abstract data and sensory data, you just interact with things without thinking about things after you've dealt with them for awhile, don't think it's different than any other source of data we've ever dealt with in history<br />
<br />
57:43 that's why it's natural versus designed because it's the only meaningful distinction at that point<br />
<br />
58:00 depends entirely on context of situation; you don't realize you're using a hammer until you hit your thumb, until then it's an extension of self<br />
<br />
59:02 pure procedural processing, nothing declarative about it<br />
<br />
59:06 so follow GPS until it starts to go wrong, and then you think of it as a GPS unit and you start analyzing it instead of just using it as a stream of information<br />
<br />
59:34 that's the level of interaction a lot of people that want to give you information are reaching for; how many websites do you not know which is an ad and which is a legit link? doing that actively; suspension of disbelief while watching a movie, snapping out of it, incorporating adverts<br />
<br />
1:00:43 taking information, using everything you have to reconstruct what's going on in the world around you, and at some point your body stops and your environment begins, it's just about processing; Transhumanism to me is there is no fundamental difference between suiting up in things that alter how you see your environment and actually changing your environment; the question that started this discussion for me, what's the difference between having RFID tags on everything and having fancy goggles that tell you what things are? Still getting data feedback about everything<br />
<br />
1:01:47 it's about the lag time; photoshop and creativity, less lag means what you want to do more closely matches what you intended<br />
<br />
1:02:21 if you click on something and it doesn't immediately respond there's the breakdown (like the the GPS/actuality)<br />
<br />
1:02:34 lag with direct stimulation of pain in the brain as opposed to less lag when you're actually experiencing it<br />
<br />
1:03:29 lag and visceral idea, [http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2007/10/09 RadioLab thing on emotional reactions], you're not just reacting to your environment through your head, your body gets the signal first, so you're processing to how your body is reacting as well as when information your 'brain' is getting; body as context as well as your environment as context<br />
<br />
1:04:23 feedback loop between what your body is experiencing and what your brain is doing; is your body going through something and your brain is coming up with an emotional response or are you having an emotional response and then matching it with bodily reactions<br />
<br />
1:04:44 philisophical "what's real?"<br />
<br />
1:05:11 whole other conversation<br />
<br />
from chat: Jack Prince: Response first adrenalin later <br />
<br />
1:05:16 cockroach is running when you turn on the lights even before it knows its running; Nathan's experience at the dentist<br />
<br />
1:05:34 Nathan's story about just having a bodily response with no emotional context, having it explained meant being able to control bodily response<br />
<br />
1:06:32 pure experience of one without the other<br />
<br />
1:06:57 control bodily reaction when you have context<br />
<br />
1:07:12 difference between stage fright and anticipation of desperately wanting to be on stage, it's how you interpret the reaction<br />
<br />
1:07:42 how you import the data, interpret it, how you perceive things; trying to find meaning<br />
<br />
1:08:11 [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3852/is_200401/ai_n9374507 shaky bridge experiment], romantic feelings increasing after being in a dangerous situation; associate you with the feelings they're having<br />
<br />
1:09:10 how does that affect your idea of data processing? created senses?<br />
<br />
from chat: Jake von Slatt: "Fight or flight" but so much of our world requires "chill" which our bodies don't know how to do.<br />
Jack Prince: A lot of times that is correct.<br />
Willow Bloo: yes!<br />
Jake von Slatt: result is stress. <br />
<br />
1:09:36 Jake says, fight or flight, but our current world requires chill, which we don't know how to do; when we're looking at what's happening in Dubai we're supposed to remain calm, we create different contexts in order to respond the way we're 'supposed to'<br />
<br />
1:10:17 Pseumatic Marker Affect, long emotional time to react to the event, triggers response every time you're at the corner; browser doesn't have lag time to develop an emotional response, so you just absorb images but don't have emotional response to build up, get desensitized<br />
<br />
1:11:12 what determines that desensitization? as you interpret it differently; difficulty distinguishing between truth and fiction<br />
<br />
1:11:51 personal experience changing how you interpret things<br />
<br />
1:12:02 in dreams, you can experience things like you're there; ability to empathize based on previous experience<br />
<br />
1:12:25 easy to learn something if it's based on previous context, otherwise it's rote memorization first to create the context and then you add on<br />
<br />
1:12:37 empathy as a skill, you're better at it if you use it; person crying on sidewalk being ignored because you have to be to work or do you sit down and figure out what's going on?<br />
<br />
1:13:21 click the link!<br />
<br />
1:13:24 does the pointer change shape as you hover over them?<br />
<br />
1:13:28 you are exceptional in sitting down with them<br />
<br />
1:13:37 just as an example<br />
<br />
1:13:44 it's a lot about choice, what do you choose to spend time on, that alters your response; opting in and out of interpretations<br />
<br />
1:14:07 reframing to deal with anxiety, dealing with planes because of something that didn't have to do with planes but happened on one<br />
<br />
1:14:42 meta programming<br />
<br />
1:14:46 there is a choice in how you do things<br />
<br />
1:15:04 multiplicity in how we deal with information, through science we know how we deal with things can change, and that changes us; brain is plastic<br />
<br />
1:15:39 make or break anything, imagination to see what you do, fill in blanks; if you don't use it it atrophies<br />
<br />
1:16:15 and then it's Fox News<br />
<br />
1:16:20 using different sources to see what spin is going on, filter through agendas<br />
<br />
1:17:18 when dealing with actual versus designed worlds, how much do you get to impose your own framing? More or less confident going into what someone else has designed? You know someone has constructed it so do you look out for it more?<br />
<br />
1:17:34 in the natural world you don't have data providers, designed world everything has an agenda, still be able to reframe<br />
<br />
1:18:04 concept of authority, the first time a human asked another human "what do you feel about this?"<br />
<br />
1:18:26 ethical issues; tv with 10 minute narrative of the world, try to paste that into your world and what it means to you, don't have freedom to go out and explore sources; don't have time, or leisure time spend exploring sources<br />
<br />
1:19:17 [http://www.warrenellis.com/?p=5885 Gin and the Cognitive Surplus] (Clay Shirky), interactive society - building wiki instead of watch TV<br />
<br />
1:20:00 some people don't know there are other options<br />
<br />
1:20:12 what does it mean to trust your senses when you're in an interactive game?<br />
<br />
1:20:20 other senses beyond the 5 we usually think of<br />
<br />
1:20:27 we're all smart enough to know we lead a pretty meta experience, we're all always kind of in an interactive game. You can go through a day where all you do is respond instead of analyzing it; whether in life or in WoW we're presented with information and we respond to it whether or not we are paying attention to it<br />
<br />
1:21:45 simulation becomes just as real as reality<br />
<br />
1:21:49 we can rely on senses in immersive video gaming because our senses help us predict patterns and so we have things we can expect as a consequence of actions; that's the overlap<br />
<br />
1:22:25 we are pattern seeking beings<br />
<br />
1:22:28 we change patterns to step out of cycles<br />
<br />
1:22:43 we're constructing patterns, those patterns are changing<br />
<br />
1:22:56 patterns of advertising allow us to skip them<br />
<br />
1:23:00 we can see the manipulations so clearly<br />
<br />
1:23:07 word of mouth as best advertising because we skip everything else, advertising learning you, data mining<br />
<br />
1:24:11 also noting what you click on and what you don't, detect trends, behavioral pattern of a group<br />
<br />
1:25:27 closing remarks<br />
<br />
1:25:52 "every technological extension is a biological amputation"<br />
<br />
1:26:13 medium is the message (or medium is the massage); studying telecommunications completely desensitizes you to being influenced by mediums<br />
<br />
1:27:32 tangent<br />
<br />
1:30:34 Jake's final point is that you have to make a decisions about what to trust, if you don't trust anything you won't make any process<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
[[Data_vs_sensory_perception]]<br />
[[Perception Chat]]<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/Data_vs_sensory_perceptionData vs sensory perception2011-01-30T22:44:33Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Main question==<br />
how does our use of engineered interfaces affect our relationship with traditional sensory input?<br />
<br />
Enhanced senses is a good topic, but not what I see as the main focus.<br />
<br />
Mostly I'd like to talk about how our notion of input is changing currently..<br />
<br />
Both in the very physical, the way we sense the physical world and how that changes as we get used to interfaces<br />
<br />
== Abstract ==<br />
===about===<br />
how our notion of what it means to get information via our 5 basic senses is changing, even without enhanced senses.<br />
<br />
1. physical, how we get information about our environment.<br />
<br />
what does it mean to get information about environment?<br />
<br />
what happens--- transmitted from environment to any intermediary interfaces (sounds picked up by hearing aid) to the body<br />
<br />
environment only supplying part of the information (ex/database of smell/taste linked to memory, visual object recognition). def. of sense (for this discussion) includes the interpretation that you do as part of processing sensory input<br />
<br />
question not whether you're using hearing aid or eardrum (made of meat or technology), or whether your environment is natural or simulated. asking what is difference b/w case where your senses and your information processing systems, are the product of evolution and learning (apples on a tree) or product of a designed system of information distributing, designed method of information capturing....live in designed world, how that changes us.<br />
<br />
can engineer environment, interfaces, body to change what's happening with your senses<br />
<br />
*can modify environment (ex/ immersive gaming experience or well-designed store)<br />
*'modify' interfaces , they are all going to be products of design<br />
*modify body*<br />
<br />
*even inside body, how you use sensory information subject to design (hack automatic body responses with biofeedback, calibrate interpretation of senses themselves/experience of cold water)<br />
<br />
<br />
filters- only using some of our ability to get information about world around us<br />
<br />
not always aware of all senses-<br />
<br />
constantly filtering out input from sensory systems...sorting relevant from not relevant (selective attention: skipping ad banners in visual scan of webpage, prioritizing: focusing on traffic signals vs. on the way socks feel in shoes)<br />
<br />
how have designed interfaces changed how you filter out senses? (ex/audiovisual bias in processing, filter out body language)<br />
<br />
<br />
can take in information without paying attention to it. (ex/ dancing as a follow, immersive gaming, using senses without consciously processing)<br />
<br />
so, separate question from what information are you using: what are you paying attention to?<br />
<br />
are you paying more or less attention? (more =the information is more abstract, forced to recall more context...less==we're not required to decide for ourselves what we should be processing...reading city traffic lights versus reading tracks in a forest, for example)<br />
<br />
<br />
tech becoming more immersive but there's also a lot more of it. is tech leading to more immersion or more conscious attention?<br />
<br />
===abstract===<br />
<br />
what it means to get information from our environment how that's changing...<br />
<br />
notion of what a 'sense' is has changed....<br />
<br />
<br />
what does it mean in our daily lives to be used to looking at things like oven lights and computer panels<br />
<br />
where designers have used awareness of how we process information to design the interface<br />
<br />
<br />
===differences b/w interfaces and environments===<br />
<br />
background, procedural versus declarative processing. procedural tool use, declarative 'about' things<br />
*interfaces designed to be easier to process, but sometimes harder because:<br />
**contain more out of context information...abstract no problem, brain abstracts all the time...but context important for how much work brain has to do. (ex/ walking, suddenly an owl out of context....vs. more aggressively decontextualized...surfing web, pop-up ad w no reference point).<br />
**also harder because more symbolic information processing such as language and maps, less directly referential information such as hearing strange noises and seeing animal tracks. (brain as simple database vs brain as interpreter)<br />
*at least in our culture, homogeneity is built into created object/experience, same every time (ex/starting up computer, going to the bank). procedural vs. (is it different w/ respect to senses going into autopilot cutting and pasting repetitively versus stripping bark from non-designed trees for a canoe?)<br />
<br />
is there difference between canned info from designed environment/ information that machine picks up for you and your 'natural' senses? sometimes yes, and sometimes the difference is in how we think of it. between whether we think of it as an environment or an interface...ex/(consumerism, anthromorphization, social constructs) examples:<br />
<br />
===other differences===<br />
*psychologically, when we think of it as receiving information from somebody, versus when we think of it as us figuring out what's going on around us...personification of information source ('RFID tag says it's a rose', vs impersonal 'smells like a rose'). do we trust information differently?<br />
*willingness to be interactive and gather sensory input...assume that we're being guided through interactions so all relevant input will be provided (ex/self-checkout machines @store, traffic signals versus watching the weather change)<br />
*expectations of user-friendliness and manageability of input:<br />
**what it means that there's too much. ex/what if the forest was a product of design? how would we rate it?<br />
**'firehose' issues with information overload versus being in forest unable to process all information<br />
*personification. (of computer, of a boat you're steering) not sensing an object but interacting with a person, does this change senses? consumer attitude of being 'served' versus simple anthromorphization such as personifying lakes/rivers...<br />
*how we know which thing is important to pay attention to....are we getting more savvy as we create our own environments (game environment encouraging interactivity) or more hand-fed (when car broken, look to instrument panel readings rather than funny car smells)?<br />
<br />
ex for what are we learning to focus on/designed feedback in how to catch a fish (pole as interface) versus no easy cues to teach you how to find good firewood (forest completely undesigned). contrast both with even more designed, game interface with life bar and "I've been hit" noises.<br />
<br />
===hypothetical...musings on future of tech:===<br />
*smart interfaces: interaction taking place in physical world rather than from mouseclicks<br />
**ex/ tipping an iphone, moveable cubes from MIT, how will this style of interacting with technology change our senses?<br />
**since experience of both is, at some point, immersive (no longer paying attention to the 'how' of interaction), does it matter for our senses how much the interaction uses physical world, naturalistic modes of interaction<br />
*interacting w/ tech vs interacting with the world through tech. interactions where the interface is not substitute for world or simulation of world but lens through which you see the world (ex/ literally...retinal overlays, or practically speaking, using google maps application to geolocate)<br />
*can still double check data against what you see. but when do you check and when do you trust it and take it in automatically, as if it were sense? (ex/ helicopter pilots relying completely on instrument panels to know where 'up' is versus relying completely on vision that lets them see through floor, what is the practical difference?)<br />
*Does it matter for our senses how much the interaction is literally plugged in to our senses?<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
*[[Perception Minutes]]<br />
*[[Perception Chat]]<br />
*[[H%2B Elbow]]<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/Data_vs_sensory_perceptionData vs sensory perception2011-01-30T22:41:35Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '==Main question== how does our use of engineered interfaces affect our relationship with traditional sensory input? Enhanced senses is a good topic, but not what I see as the ma…'</p>
<hr />
<div>==Main question==<br />
how does our use of engineered interfaces affect our relationship with traditional sensory input?<br />
<br />
Enhanced senses is a good topic, but not what I see as the main focus.<br />
<br />
Mostly I'd like to talk about how our notion of input is changing currently..<br />
<br />
Both in the very physical, the way we sense the physical world and how that changes as we get used to interfaces<br />
<br />
== Abstract ==<br />
===about===<br />
how our notion of what it means to get information via our 5 basic senses is changing, even without enhanced senses.<br />
<br />
1. physical, how we get information about our environment.<br />
<br />
what does it mean to get information about environment?<br />
<br />
what happens--- transmitted from environment to any intermediary interfaces (sounds picked up by hearing aid) to the body<br />
<br />
<pre>...</pre>environment only supplying part of the information (ex/database of smell/taste linked to memory, visual object recognition). def. of sense (for this discussion) includes the interpretation that you do as part of processing sensory input<br />
<br />
question not whether you're using hearing aid or eardrum (made of meat or technology), or whether your environment is natural or simulated. asking what is difference b/w case where your senses and your information processing systems, are the product of evolution and learning (apples on a tree) or product of a designed system of information distributing, designed method of information capturing....live in designed world, how that changes us.<br />
<br />
can engineer environment, interfaces, body to change what's happening with your senses<br />
<br />
<pre>...</pre>can modify environment (ex/ immersive gaming experience or well-designed store)<br />
<pre> ...</pre>'modify' interfaces , they are all going to be products of design<br />
<pre> ...</pre>modify body*<br />
<br />
*even inside body, how you use sensory information subject to design (hack automatic body responses with biofeedback, calibrate interpretation of senses themselves/experience of cold water)<br />
<br />
<br />
filters- only using some of our ability to get information about world around us<br />
<br />
not always aware of all senses-<br />
<br />
constantly filtering out input from sensory systems...sorting relevant from not relevant (selective attention: skipping ad banners in visual scan of webpage, prioritizing: focusing on traffic signals vs. on the way socks feel in shoes)<br />
<br />
how have designed interfaces changed how you filter out senses? (ex/audiovisual bias in processing, filter out body language)<br />
<br />
<br />
can take in information without paying attention to it. (ex/ dancing as a follow, immersive gaming, using senses without consciously processing)<br />
<br />
so, separate question from what information are you using: what are you paying attention to?<br />
<br />
are you paying more or less attention? (more =the information is more abstract, forced to recall more context...less==we're not required to decide for ourselves what we should be processing...reading city traffic lights versus reading tracks in a forest, for example)<br />
<br />
<br />
tech becoming more immersive but there's also a lot more of it. is tech leading to more immersion or more conscious attention?<br />
<br />
===abstract===<br />
<br />
what it means to get information from our environment how that's changing...<br />
<br />
notion of what a 'sense' is has changed....<br />
<br />
<br />
what does it mean in our daily lives to be used to looking at things like oven lights and computer panels<br />
<br />
where designers have used awareness of how we process information to design the interface<br />
<br />
<br />
===differences b/w interfaces and environments===<br />
<br />
background, procedural versus declarative processing. procedural tool use, declarative 'about' things<br />
*interfaces designed to be easier to process, but sometimes harder because:<br />
**contain more out of context information...abstract no problem, brain abstracts all the time...but context important for how much work brain has to do. (ex/ walking, suddenly an owl out of context....vs. more aggressively decontextualized...surfing web, pop-up ad w no reference point).<br />
**also harder because more symbolic information processing such as language and maps, less directly referential information such as hearing strange noises and seeing animal tracks. (brain as simple database vs brain as interpreter)<br />
*at least in our culture, homogeneity is built into created object/experience, same every time (ex/starting up computer, going to the bank). procedural vs. (is it different w/ respect to senses going into autopilot cutting and pasting repetitively versus stripping bark from non-designed trees for a canoe?)<br />
<br />
is there difference between canned info from designed environment/ information that machine picks up for you and your 'natural' senses? sometimes yes, and sometimes the difference is in how we think of it. between whether we think of it as an environment or an interface...ex/(consumerism, anthromorphization, social constructs) examples:<br />
<br />
===other differences===<br />
*psychologically, when we think of it as receiving information from somebody, versus when we think of it as us figuring out what's going on around us...personification of information source ('RFID tag says it's a rose', vs impersonal 'smells like a rose'). do we trust information differently?<br />
*willingness to be interactive and gather sensory input...assume that we're being guided through interactions so all relevant input will be provided (ex/self-checkout machines @store, traffic signals versus watching the weather change)<br />
*expectations of user-friendliness and manageability of input:<br />
**what it means that there's too much. ex/what if the forest was a product of design? how would we rate it?<br />
**'firehose' issues with information overload versus being in forest unable to process all information<br />
*personification. (of computer, of a boat you're steering) not sensing an object but interacting with a person, does this change senses? consumer attitude of being 'served' versus simple anthromorphization such as personifying lakes/rivers...<br />
*how we know which thing is important to pay attention to....are we getting more savvy as we create our own environments (game environment encouraging interactivity) or more hand-fed (when car broken, look to instrument panel readings rather than funny car smells)?<br />
<br />
ex for what are we learning to focus on/designed feedback in how to catch a fish (pole as interface) versus no easy cues to teach you how to find good firewood (forest completely undesigned). contrast both with even more designed, game interface with life bar and "I've been hit" noises.<br />
<br />
===hypothetical...musings on future of tech:===<br />
*smart interfaces: interaction taking place in physical world rather than from mouseclicks<br />
**ex/ tipping an iphone, moveable cubes from MIT, how will this style of interacting with technology change our senses?<br />
**since experience of both is, at some point, immersive (no longer paying attention to the 'how' of interaction), does it matter for our senses how much the interaction uses physical world, naturalistic modes of interaction<br />
*interacting w/ tech vs interacting with the world through tech. interactions where the interface is not substitute for world or simulation of world but lens through which you see the world (ex/ literally...retinal overlays, or practically speaking, using google maps application to geolocate)<br />
*can still double check data against what you see. but when do you check and when do you trust it and take it in automatically, as if it were sense? (ex/ helicopter pilots relying completely on instrument panels to know where 'up' is versus relying completely on vision that lets them see through floor, what is the practical difference?)<br />
*Does it matter for our senses how much the interaction is literally plugged in to our senses?<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
*[[Perception Minutes]]<br />
*[[Perception Chat]]<br />
*[[H%2B Elbow]]<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/PropertyProperty2011-01-30T22:11:18Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '== Resources == [http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17569-consumerism-is-eating-the-future.html Consumerism is eating the Future] == Minutes == Role property plays, has been …'</p>
<hr />
<div>== Resources ==<br />
[http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17569-consumerism-is-eating-the-future.html Consumerism is eating the Future]<br />
<br />
== Minutes ==<br />
Role property plays, has been for things with a limited supply; evolution of availability of objects: moving away from one individual piece to replications to simulacra, now not even necessarily a physical manifestation of object; we seem to be recreating a scarcity in online environments<br />
<br />
Second life, prestige, location to other people, property values<br />
<br />
[http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/122/is-the-tipping-point-toast.html Study on voting for songs], when you couldn’t see what other people liked it balanced out, when you could see random things became popular; arbitrary value being added online, everyone following what they think everyone else likes, how that jars reputation economy<br />
<br />
Clump together rather than spreading out as identical individuals, we mod our own works so they’re no longer identical<br />
<br />
Not selling digital content any longer, just amassing fans/subscribers; turns it into a reputation<br />
<br />
Selling the idea of belonging to a group, not the content of the group; token of participation<br />
<br />
[http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/brewster_kahle_builds_a_free_digital_library.html Digital library, costing money to give things away for free online]<br />
<br />
Net Neutrality, you have to be a digital distributor as well as a creator; if you allow unlimited copies to exist then you no longer have to be the server<br />
<br />
Versioning, if you don’t have a central distribution center you can’t update all in one go<br />
<br />
There needs to be an original somewhere to have version tracking, mixing is great but you need to have an idea of what the original was (public library) in order to relate it to the group; if everything is going to be shared the government needs to support that in some way<br />
<br />
Giving credit where credit is due, you don’t annotate and say it’s yours; authorized texts of things<br />
<br />
Are you hoping to support yourself or just share things?<br />
<br />
Speed of distribution being its own legitimization; how close to the source are you? If you receive something hour even days after release, you can be pretty sure it’s original or close to<br />
<br />
The content distribution is up to the record company, the artist wants their music to be heard (live venue, etc), it’s about creating the experience<br />
<br />
Has giving things away for free or having that as the assumption devalued the music? Faux music which took hours based off of technical constructions which took months getting just as much attention to an untrained ear<br />
<br />
The things you put online are your loss media, then you get popular and move into the old media (people buy to be a part of the group, thousand true fans model)<br />
<br />
Online galleries as representation of the work, seeing it IRL is completely different; live versus CD versus MP3<br />
<br />
Marketing and PR has always involved free samples; also having something that no one else can do; no matter how many tools you give a person and how many samples you present them with they can’t replicate it<br />
<br />
Starting to value the soul of things a little more<br />
<br />
Creative works are not necessarily property, not supported by laws of the country nor laws of physics. Atoms and bits need to be treated differently. We treat physical objects differently because of their scarcity; art works are different in that you don’t detract from the original; value is based on supply, as supply approaches infinity, value approaches zero (the original piece as being quite valuable but the replications thereof as losing value – statement about not disvaluing art but as an example of infinite supply)<br />
<br />
Reconstructing scarcity online transferring to new tech, if you’re able to give everyone everything they need but we’ve already imposed socioeconomic guidelines (if we have replicators or meat trees or whatever, why would we prevent anybody from having all their basic needs fulfilled, why would we still have castes, etc)<br />
<br />
Transposing structures into a game because it’s based on life; it’s fun when it’s a game<br />
<br />
People participating in a game are opting into a set of rules; on the Internet the rules are not as standardized, always in flux; counter to scarcity; Net Neutrality trying to impose RL scarcity onto the internet<br />
<br />
Games are fun in that you’re overcoming obstacles; socialist games are not fun<br />
<br />
Cannot duplicate excellence in mental abilities<br />
<br />
Nature of copyright – patents cover physical objects and machines, copyright covers the representation of an idea, not the idea itself (two authors can write on the exact same topic but each can be copyrightable because it’s their representation of that idea). Software is awesome in that it’s the representation of an idea within a machine; also algorithms and code as being seen by the courts as basic mathematics and therefore unpatentable/copyrightable, but any programmer will tell you it’s the representation of an idea<br />
<br />
Pouring your heart and soul into something in order for proprietary rights; but if we have islands of information we don’t have a big picture; having the big picture is more valuable; global warming<br />
<br />
Patent, copyright, etc; life forms<br />
<br />
Difference between intellectual properties<br />
<br />
What gains value when you share the information, what just no longer has value for anyone because no one owns it (you can’t improve upon it)<br />
<br />
Invasive species and adaptively in plants, narrowing of genetic field<br />
<br />
India outlawing patenting plants<br />
<br />
By overspecializing you’re killing yourself<br />
<br />
Pharmaceutical companies altering natural occurrences in order to be patentable, gives it side effects that it wouldn’t otherwise have; you want to be able to reward people for their work<br />
<br />
You can’t generate income if you’re not patenting what’s coming out, difficult to regulate<br />
<br />
Values shifted from looking out for people to making money<br />
<br />
Copyright is about what economic system we’ve chosen to work within<br />
<br />
Prestige motive causing people to hoard scare things, we can now make some things less scarce but can’t eliminate it completely<br />
<br />
What things don’t you want the general public to have access to? How do you keep that stuff back to the people that know how to handle it?<br />
<br />
Popular decision is not always the most trustworthy, name brands are not necessarily best<br />
<br />
Beta Testing the Future<br />
<br />
How do you make a living when everything is given to you? What are you going to do when everything is available?<br />
<br />
Enabling knowledge and skill, producing knowledge and skill; first in non proprietary way, second as provided in a mass way<br />
<br />
If all the technologies we had were distributed we could support everyone right now, but we don’t; we have technologies to be much more efficient and sustainable but they’re in pockets instead of being distributed; inequality in economic system<br />
<br />
Any system we do things in exchange for food and a place to live; so if we don’t have artificial scarcity how do we legitimize getting those things?<br />
<br />
Who makes the boxes that make everything for us?<br />
<br />
Copyright is no longer about holding the rights to distribute something, it can’t work that way in these days; the effort put into the work is what is valued<br />
<br />
Open source drugs, how quickly could we come up with cures if we open-sourced science? Who supports sciences if it’s open-sourced? Does the government support it? It does now<br />
<br />
What role does the government take in serving the public good? What role does government take in sharing information with the populace?<br />
<br />
For the good of society, ideas should be free<br />
<br />
If you do things, you should get stuff (within reason)<br />
<br />
Bartering cutting out the middle man, copyright being cut out when you give directly to the fans; urban gardening writing books but also giving ideas away for free online, people share seed stock, ideas, supplies IRL, creating alternate economies based on what can the individual bring to the group and being supported<br />
<br />
Bringing something to society through force or contribution, building community or taking it down; need some level of regulation to keep the Vikings out<br />
<br />
We have the ability to cut down drastically on scarcity but at the same time, but also need carrot v stick; sharing a resource pool that is constantly dwindling<br />
<br />
[http://www.ithacahours.com/ Ithaca Hours] interacting with outside economy<br />
<br />
Disrupting economy is an easy way to piss off the government: no taxes are going out so who’s paying for your firefighters?<br />
<br />
We’re using old school economy for information exchange<br />
<br />
Information economy<br />
<br />
== See Also ==<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]<br />
[[H%2B Elbow]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/Constructing_Online_IdentityConstructing Online Identity2011-01-30T22:09:44Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '== Overview == Identity in general, actively constructing how people see you via putting together a profile – you can put together a false identity through this. How do we co…'</p>
<hr />
<div>== Overview ==<br />
<br />
Identity in general, actively constructing how people see you via putting together a profile – you can put together a false identity through this.<br />
<br />
How do we communicate when we don’t have nonverbal communication and tone of voice?<br />
<br />
How do we come together in groups? Group blogs and forums (moderated and otherwise) specifically. How can individuals disrupt this group? Trolling specifically, and how the option on anonymity affects how we communicate.<br />
<br />
Being valid or legitimate online, accountability, being “real.” How looking for similar qualities or shared past experiences (locations, people, etc) creates new Locality, sometimes reconstructs previous geographically based social networks. Seeking out our Tribe.<br />
<br />
Human Subjects Committee not allowing for a lot of research online<br />
<br />
Intent behind each profile, keeping social groups apart from each other as a form of filtering/fracturing identity. But there are also people who simply filter all the time and present the same across all profiles and spaces<br />
<br />
When you know who your audience tends to be, you cater to them.<br />
<br />
Using tech to connect real life people rather than relying on “friends diving” or FaceBook suggestions – salmonbots and organic chat client<br />
<br />
Real life consequences – using online social networks to locate people who have done things in offline space, and then taking offline repercussions<br />
<br />
How do we communicate differently online versus face to face?<br />
<br />
Media preferences requested directly after political and religious affiliations, how we communicate in these contexts<br />
<br />
Listing interests affecting how we communicate, seeping into face to face interactions; positive feelings about a listed thing versus listing things you feel negatively about<br />
<br />
People cultivating a cult of personality about themselves, these becoming more than that individual can handle<br />
<br />
== Minutes==<br />
00-:20 quick intro<br />
<br />
00:20 to 1:04 six identities when two people are communicating: each person as they see themselves, as the other person sees them, and as they really are<br />
<br />
1:04 when filling out an online profile it’s how you see yourself, not the other two<br />
<br />
1:35 on presenting someone you’re not<br />
<br />
2:25 how this plays into gender, presenting as you see yourself<br />
<br />
2:26 everybody’s queer on the internet, not necessarily transgender<br />
<br />
3:37 putting energy into becoming a persona. Grant Morrison talked about writing King Mob as someone he wanted to become, and by putting so much energy into it did so<br />
<br />
4:27 not always a clean slate, because you have a structure imposed upon you by the social network, when they ask for what, etc. conforms to a certain architecture<br />
<br />
5:04 why do people want to create identities online? Socialization, escape from Real World, etc. Good and bad reasons for creating these identities<br />
<br />
5:55 Getting emotion across via online mediums; the way people “talk” showing how legitimate they are<br />
<br />
6:51 Real World versus online communication, how you change the way you talk depending on medium, who you communicate best with depending on how similar their communication styles are across mediums. Graphic designers and typographers as communicating well online through grammar, punctuation, bold, etc<br />
<br />
8:11 punctuation<br />
<br />
8:37 common language, relating to people due to programs they use, visuals; this also builds on your identity<br />
<br />
9:21 visuals outside language determining how you express your format; target audience determining which identity you put forward; what happens when people look at you across networks? What if you’re not the same across from them?<br />
<br />
10:24 forums you use dictating how you communicate; group blogs versus individual blogs. What about group identity?<br />
<br />
11:23 Group personality; no individual gets to dictate what happens but many people contributing to one personality, the personality changes at first and then stabilizes as they figure out what that personality is. Different aspects of one personality through many contributing to the personality.<br />
<br />
12:50 difference between group blog and group-moderated forums?<br />
<br />
12:58 forum would allow for a new comer to create a disruption due to malintent or just naivety; changing the group and becoming a part of the personality or just destroying it or gets kicked out; group blog is more of a membership where anyone can read, but only the personality can post – much more stable<br />
<br />
14:26 expostulation versus “hey new stuff”, getting closer to a collective<br />
<br />
15:22 disruption through accidentally stepping on toes or bringing something new to the table which can be cool, or just for the sake of disruption<br />
<br />
15:46 trolling and anonymous identities affecting how we interact; we’re assholes when we can be faceless; responding differently to the same comment from someone they know versus someone anonymous versus someone you can check out via profiles and such<br />
<br />
17:03 “punch in the face factor”; consequences; no punishment, just change your IP address and create a new profile; getting an ego based on not being checked, people who don’t know the difference<br />
<br />
18:39 link to actualities<br />
<br />
19:14 wedding crashing, if you don’t know anyone you get to make up your identity in real life; making up an identity that’s “better”, what can you get away with; all you have is a history online. How valid are they?<br />
<br />
20:22 you can always check someone’s web presence<br />
<br />
20:35 don’t want agreement with ideals, just want someone who is tangible; someone who is real<br />
<br />
21:05 forums that require a previous web presence for joining<br />
<br />
21:24 debate instead of arguing<br />
<br />
21:45 authenticity, but also proximity to the speaker. How close are you to the person speaking? Who is this person? Do they know who I know, because that gives them more legitimacy.<br />
<br />
22:24 some place to connect, something in relation<br />
<br />
23:01 knowing someone they know makes you real; something to grab onto, point of commonality; base level to build on<br />
<br />
23:32 checking of validity based on what people are referencing: do they know the specifics or just pulling shit out the ass?<br />
<br />
24:15 the idea of locality not necessarily being geographic any more; where you come from determining how you relate to people, what and how you talk<br />
<br />
25:02 global system we’re still just looking for people who are “hanging out next door”; want the tribe, the little group of people<br />
<br />
25:34 door fixing, cristobat joins us<br />
<br />
26:48 video on social networking; HSC approval; scraping social networks for info<br />
<br />
27:26 HSC and the Internet<br />
<br />
27:45 art project! E-mail networks; reconstructing meat space online<br />
<br />
28:28 popularity contest happening past high school due to online social networks<br />
<br />
28:42 competition in colleges/meat space encouraging individuality versus collective form<br />
<br />
30:08 law school, enforced curve, not playing nice, no collaborative learning; how that translates with those individuals onto their social networks: it’s about making connections with those at your level or higher for future favor calling<br />
<br />
30:45 profile to filter people, but bots never listen; lost train of thought<br />
<br />
31:33 what are you using the social networks for? Connecting to friends or PR? Using it for my benefit or social benefit?<br />
<br />
32:36 the people that use it for different purposes section off from each other; presenting different aspects of personality; not just for PR, what/why people are interested in you<br />
<br />
33:35 who is reading your entries? Do I fragment my personality for readership? How does this relate to meeting people in real life?<br />
<br />
34:39 people creating several different identities across mediums in order to have interactions with others for reasons of deception or reasons of filtering for who is reading (family knows about one account, kink friends about another, etc)<br />
<br />
35:44 cross over between those accounts, people saying “take me as I am”<br />
<br />
36:12 not necessarily about fracturing identity but about filtering just like you would anyway<br />
<br />
36:32 what about work?<br />
<br />
36:52 showcasing different aspects of personality in different forums seems to be the general trend. What about someone like Libby, who presents the same and clearly links between her points across different sites? Do people treat her differently based on what forum she’s in despite being the same in each?<br />
<br />
37:27 main post is to everybody: boss, mother, stalker, ex boyfriend, etc; goofiness and flirting comes out in comments, tailored to the individual; accessible because on so many different networks, also using real name, place, visuals, etc; also censors offline and in general rather than creating a different profile/persona to express that aspect of personality; honest and positive, don’t use friends filters<br />
<br />
40:11 going back to the 6 people, you keep two of your three huddled in a corner malnourished so you’re just working on one identity<br />
<br />
40:46 not even intentionally creating a personality sometimes, realizing who is out there and building based on what you think they want to hear<br />
<br />
41:25 when you know your readership and the people that tend toward that social network, it shapes how you interact with them (also because of how it is structured). What about people with their own home page? How do people present there<br />
<br />
42:24 more professional, you have one thing you’re promoting<br />
<br />
42:57 actual geography plays into what social network you use; MySpace in New Orleans, Seattle is FaceBook<br />
<br />
43:29 if we could do the work the social networking sites do for us, we would<br />
<br />
43:42 salmon bot connecting two actual (confused) people; neat idea but most of the time people get pissed off because they think the person they’ve just been connected to is the bot<br />
<br />
46:25 organic chat client, connecting people actively instead of counting on friends-diving; different from FaceBook suggesting friends based on if you know the same people (reconstructing “real life” networks)<br />
<br />
48:01 finding people for real life incidents online and then taking real life action<br />
<br />
49:59 people taking real life action based on how people treat them online<br />
<br />
50:44 anonymity is not something new, you’ve been able to send anonymous letters [afterthought: but you haven’t had an audience for you anonymity before, with anonymous letters. It’s almost a sport now]<br />
<br />
50:59 people act differently when you’re face to face versus if they’re behind a computer<br />
<br />
51:50 you get more ego from people online because you’re not having a conversation necessarily, you’re just posting and postulating; people have to read everything you’ve written before it’s their turn, and then you can ignore them<br />
<br />
52:36 chat rooms versus forum posting<br />
<br />
53:03 meeting someone in real life allows you to know more about them in a short time versus reading all of their posted information, profiles, etc and talking with them online and still not having an idea of who they really are; because we don’t have the real life connect we present a lot of informational tidbits to try to have that personality constructed<br />
<br />
53:52 you can interject in real life conversation, get an impression of people based on speaking style, body language, etc<br />
<br />
54:36 sarcasm not coming across online<br />
<br />
55:05 media preferences asked about after religious views<br />
<br />
55:28 next to our political and religious views goes our movie and music preferences, to a lot of people the latter are more important<br />
<br />
56:02 politics and religion almost are media entertainment due to how they are presented; you affiliate with things because they’re entertaining and convenient instead of due to conviction<br />
<br />
56:30 how people relate on politics versus how they relate on movies<br />
<br />
57:00 use cultural context to make sure people are authentic<br />
<br />
57:16 politics and religion as taboo in a lot of online space; people are unwilling to change political opinions so you have to find something else to talk about, like media preferences<br />
<br />
58:07 seeing what people relate to via their listed media preferences<br />
<br />
58:29 discussion points through media<br />
<br />
58:54 have something to relate on so you can have discussion about where you disagree<br />
<br />
59:04 whereas with politics you just have these guys and those guys and that’s it<br />
<br />
59:17 people know media preferences are subjective<br />
<br />
59:44 how is asking for media interests affecting conversation? LJ just asks for general interests, ease of adding other people’s interests to yours,<br />
<br />
1:00:30 giving you a paintbrush, but when you list general ideas it’s too abstract to have a conversation about, have to be more specific to instigate discussion; mass media listing encourages people to be more specific; need a common thread to start any conversation<br />
<br />
1:03:46 you’re asked what you do like, not what you don’t like; you’re told a lot about people by what they don’t say<br />
<br />
1:04:38 supposed to connect over what’s positive and then as you get to know people you can bitch with them; it’s easier to agree with people than to stand up against them<br />
<br />
1:05:29 the identity put out there is only one side<br />
<br />
1:05:48 “you put your ones before your zeros”<br />
<br />
1:05:58 people interacting in person as if they’re reading off a social networking site; people who are socially awkward using it as guidance<br />
<br />
1:09:27 people listing off interests, but I want to know what you care about; name dropping a certain number of products and places and such; want interaction, not listing stuff<br />
<br />
1:12:30 example of the person just listing interests being very methodical in how they interacted, being for blogging<br />
<br />
1:13:23 human bot<br />
<br />
1:13:43 insecurities dictating how you interact<br />
<br />
1:15:25 people cultivating a cult of personality about themselves; our constructs become more than we can handle or keep up with, especially difficult if you’re not being completely honest, not self-sustaining<br />
<br />
1:17:36 encouraging people to think about themselves, figuring out who they are, how they want to portray themselves; being honest about themselves because they want the relationships that come out of the interactions to be real<br />
<br />
1:18:23 wrapping up (place was actually close to closing so we didn’t start back up)<br />
<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
[[H%2B Elbow]]<br />
<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_ElbowH+ Elbow2011-01-30T22:03:05Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>===What is H+?===<br />
[http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/9047234 Talk at Gnomedex]<br />
<br />
[http://prezi.com/x2hsiwmz8m2a/transhumanism-101/ associated Prezi]<br />
<br />
===About H+ Elbow===<br />
An H+ resource maintained by [[Willow Brugh]]. <br />
<br />
===Articles===<br />
Awaiting resources.<br />
*[[Article Name 1]]<br />
*[[Article Name 2]]<br />
*[[And so on]]<br />
<br />
===Discussion Group===<br />
====proposed topics====<br />
*Erasing your past - next conversation<br />
*Sensies, avatars (real vs avatar)<br />
*Individual and connectedness<br />
*Taoism and Transhumanism<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Little_Brother|Little Brother/Sousveillance]] (civil disobedience and surveillance culture)<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Superorganisms|Superorganisms]]<br />
<br />
====past meetings====<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_General|General]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Bodies|Bodies]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Brains|Brains]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Interactions|Interactions]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Future|Potential Futures]]<br />
*[[discussion notes formatting]]<br />
<br />
===External Links===<br />
====Sociological / Legal Issues:====<br />
*[http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/IEETblog IEET]<br />
*[http://crnano.typepad.com/crnblog/ CRN]<br />
*[http://grinding.be/ grinding.be]<br />
====General Interest:====<br />
*[http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/index/ WTA's site]<br />
*[http://www.worldchanging.com/ Worldchanging]<br />
*[http://www.metaefficient.com/ Metaefficient]<br />
*[http://yudkowsky.net/ Eliezer Yudkowsky - writings on rationality and AI research]<br />
*[http://nickbostrom.com/ Nick Bostrom, Professor, Director, Future of Humanity Institute]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_ElbowH+ Elbow2011-01-30T22:02:48Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>===What is H+?===<br />
[http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/9047234 Talk at Gnomedex]<br />
[http://prezi.com/x2hsiwmz8m2a/transhumanism-101/ associated Prezi]<br />
<br />
===About H+ Elbow===<br />
An H+ resource maintained by [[Willow Brugh]]. <br />
<br />
===Articles===<br />
Awaiting resources.<br />
*[[Article Name 1]]<br />
*[[Article Name 2]]<br />
*[[And so on]]<br />
<br />
===Discussion Group===<br />
====proposed topics====<br />
*Erasing your past - next conversation<br />
*Sensies, avatars (real vs avatar)<br />
*Individual and connectedness<br />
*Taoism and Transhumanism<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Little_Brother|Little Brother/Sousveillance]] (civil disobedience and surveillance culture)<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Superorganisms|Superorganisms]]<br />
<br />
====past meetings====<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_General|General]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Bodies|Bodies]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Brains|Brains]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Interactions|Interactions]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Future|Potential Futures]]<br />
*[[discussion notes formatting]]<br />
<br />
===External Links===<br />
====Sociological / Legal Issues:====<br />
*[http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/IEETblog IEET]<br />
*[http://crnano.typepad.com/crnblog/ CRN]<br />
*[http://grinding.be/ grinding.be]<br />
====General Interest:====<br />
*[http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/index/ WTA's site]<br />
*[http://www.worldchanging.com/ Worldchanging]<br />
*[http://www.metaefficient.com/ Metaefficient]<br />
*[http://yudkowsky.net/ Eliezer Yudkowsky - writings on rationality and AI research]<br />
*[http://nickbostrom.com/ Nick Bostrom, Professor, Director, Future of Humanity Institute]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_InteractionsH+ Elbow Interactions2011-01-30T21:51:16Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>08/08/22 [[Constructing Online Identity]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/ConstructingIdentity.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
08/10/17 [[Property]] : No Audio<br />
<br />
08/11/07 [[data vs sensory perception]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20Perception1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Perception2.mp3 Audio 2] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/03%20Perception3.mp3 Audio 3]<br />
<br />
09/01/02 [[Emergent Leadership]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Emergent%20Leadership.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://imul.us/podcasts/02%20EmergentLeadership.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/01/30 [[relating to each other through machines]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20relating.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Relating2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/06/19 [[Urban Sustainability]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/urban.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
09/06/05 [[etiquette]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/etiquette.mp3 partial audio]<br />
<br />
09/05/08 [[Ethics]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Ethics2%201.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Ethics2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/04/10 [[Transhumanism in Community]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20community1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20community2.mp3 Audio 2] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/03%20community3.mp3 Audio 3] (noisy place, apologies)<br />
<br />
09/4/09 [[Education]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/education.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
09/10/9 [[Eugenics]] : there was a [http://eugenics.washington.edu/ conference] at UW, with lots of information : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/eugenics.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
10/22/01 [[Cultural Reservations / Preservation]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/cultural.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
See also: [[H%2B Elbow]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_InteractionsH+ Elbow Interactions2011-01-30T21:48:20Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '08/08/22 Constructing Online Identity : [http://imul.us/podcasts/ConstructingIdentity.mp3 Audio] 08/10/17 Property : No Audio 08/11/07 data vs sensory perception : …'</p>
<hr />
<div>08/08/22 [[Constructing Online Identity]] : [http://imul.us/podcasts/ConstructingIdentity.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
08/10/17 [[Property]] : No Audio<br />
<br />
08/11/07 [[data vs sensory perception]] : [http://imul.us/podcasts/01%20Perception1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://imul.us/podcasts/02%20Perception2.mp3 Audio 2] , [http://imul.us/podcasts/03%20Perception3.mp3 Audio 3]<br />
<br />
09/01/02 [[Emergent Leadership]] : [http://imul.us/podcasts/02%20Emergent%20Leadership.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://imul.us/podcasts/02%20EmergentLeadership.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/01/30 [[relating to each other through machines]] : [http://imul.us/podcasts/01%20relating.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://imul.us/podcasts/02%20Relating2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/06/19 [[Urban Sustainability]] : [http://imul.us/podcasts/urban.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
09/06/05 [[etiquette]] : [http://imul.us/podcasts/etiquette.mp3 partial audio]<br />
<br />
09/05/08 [[Ethics]] : [http://imul.us/podcasts/02%20Ethics2%201.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://imul.us/podcasts/02%20Ethics2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/04/10 [[Transhumanism in Community]] : [http://imul.us/podcasts/01%20community1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://imul.us/podcasts/02%20community2.mp3 Audio 2] , [http://imul.us/podcasts/03%20community3.mp3 Audio 3] (noisy place, apologies)<br />
<br />
09/4/09 [[Education]] : [http://imul.us/podcasts/education.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
09/10/9 [[Eugenics]] : there was a [http://eugenics.washington.edu/ conference] at UW, with lots of information : [http://imul.us/podcasts/eugenics.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
10/22/01 [[Cultural Reservations / Preservation]] : [http://imul.us/podcasts/cultural.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
See also: [[H%2B_Elbow]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_BrainsH+ Elbow Brains2011-01-25T23:05:01Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>08/08/08 [[H%2B_Elbow_Information_Diets|Information Diets]] : [http://freakangels.com/wcaudio/Seattle_8.8.8_H+_Discussion.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
09/03/13 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Brain_Changes|Brain Changes]] : [http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=5168 Whitechapel Discussion] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20Brains1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Brains2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/03/27/09 [[H%2B_Elbow_Cheating|Cheating]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20Cheating1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Cheating2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/04/13 Information Diet Focus Group : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20InfoDietRehash1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20InfoDietRehash2.mp3 Audio 2]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_BrainsH+ Elbow Brains2011-01-25T23:01:17Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>08/08/08 [[H%2B_Elbow_Information_Diets|Information Diets]] : [http://freakangels.com/wcaudio/Seattle_8.8.8_H+_Discussion.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
09/03/13 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Brain_Changes|Brain Changes]] : [http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=5168 Whitechapel Discussion] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20Brains1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Brains2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/03/27/09 [[H%2B_Elbow_Cheating|Cheating]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20Cheating1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Cheating2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/04/13 [[H%2B_Elbow_Info_Diet_Focus_Group|Info Diet Focus Group]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20InfoDietRehash1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20InfoDietRehash2.mp3 Audio 2]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_Brain_ChangesH+ Elbow Brain Changes2011-01-25T22:59:56Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '[http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/is-technology-producing-a-decline-79127.aspx Analytical versus Visual Intelligence] [http://techyum.com/2009/02/suberb_face_off_the_interne…'</p>
<hr />
<div>[http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/is-technology-producing-a-decline-79127.aspx Analytical versus Visual Intelligence]<br />
<br />
[http://techyum.com/2009/02/suberb_face_off_the_internet_h.html The Internet isn't Bad]<br />
<br />
[http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009/02/neuroscientist-internet-video-games-rewiring-kids-brains.ars Rewiring brains]<br />
<br />
<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_Information_DietsH+ Elbow Information Diets2011-01-25T22:57:28Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '==Opening== '''Introductions''' *who we are, where we come from, what our interests are '''Recording''' *where it’s going, permission, protocol (say your name, mic passing, tim…'</p>
<hr />
<div>==Opening==<br />
'''Introductions'''<br />
*who we are, where we come from, what our interests are<br />
'''Recording'''<br />
*where it’s going, permission, protocol (say your name, mic passing, time constraints and keeping points on paper instead of shouting them out)<br />
==Topic for the Day==<br />
*information diets, how what we consume and how we consume it affects the way we think in general (clocks, industrialism, now machines and internet) “paraliteracy” - Strand<br />
*wikipedia view of the world<br />
*interactive<br />
*scanning<br />
*large amount of stimuli<br />
*instant feedback v contemplating (Nietzsche, Photoshop)<br />
*what is legitimate? What do you choose to spend your time on?<br />
*linear v nonlinear<br />
<br />
'''What else do people want to cover? Where would they like to cover it? AND GO!'''<br />
*E-mail out to people, get short profiles/links, have them fill out when they were talking (in another color) with references, detail, etc. link loop together<br />
*Future discussions?<br />
<br />
==Discussion==<br />
00:17 to 04:57 introductions, synopsis of things to talk about, etiquette, elephant<br />
<br />
04:57 to 06:26 Kaleen on the evolution of communication and “catchiest” thought instead of best thought<br />
<br />
06:26 Alice on subliminal messaging, marketing; the way the MTV and video game generations enjoy in culture, we are affected by the media around us<br />
<br />
08:16 Nick joins us<br />
<br />
08:55 Cody on Is Google Making Us Stupid? On surrounding facts with linear context, motivation to read going away as weighed down. Extraneous information, filler. Deciding what’s worthwhile, not wanting the bullshit. Primary and secondary sources; wanting<br />
<br />
11:17 The other Nick joins us<br />
<br />
11:40 Willow on reliable sources, information more accessible online so easier to get bad (and good) information<br />
<br />
12:19 Sarah on participatory culture<br />
<br />
13:15 Nick on user generated content versus user generated context, amateurs having great taste but not necessarily the skill to produce good material<br />
<br />
14:11 Nathan on everyone having a voice instead of needing an infastructure to reach a big audience; what is a reliable source? What is parody, what is real, cross referencing<br />
<br />
15:13 degree of responsibility to be sure of something’s intent before you pass it on<br />
<br />
15:45 Strand on paraliteracy, telling what’s good and what’s crap, getting that level of literacy in<br />
<br />
16:56 Other Nick on determining what’s true online and how it’s more likely that people will actually check on it as opposed to “Real” News. Encouraging widespread critique<br />
<br />
17:54 Kaleen on Information Diet; abundance of information is similar to an overabundance of food – had always been an issue of “do I have enough” instead of having to determine amongst. Hardwired to enjoy getting new knowledge, so we’re up until 3a looking at YouTube videos – Twinkies of the internet. Also, food processing and information processing. “Don’t want to say the Internet is controlling what we think anymore than the supermarket controls what we eat, but I want to own it…” What’s valuable to carry around in my head, how do I want to get it. Slow information like the slow food movement.<br />
<br />
20:46 Alice on useful education versus useless entertainment; television as “forced information”; Transindentalist movement and finding information on the topic when it wasn’t readily available in her Kansas Library. Education, block scheduling, preparing you for factory job<br />
<br />
23:15 Strand on Taylor Gado’s Underground History of Education<br />
<br />
23:23 Willow on YouTube video Are Schools Killing Creativity?<br />
<br />
23:38 Nathan on diets, guidelines on what are good foods for you, suggestions for what would be a healthy information diet? “If you are what you eat, can you be what you think?”<br />
<br />
24:47 Kaleen on readers deciding instead of a government entity<br />
<br />
24:36 Nathan, things that are and aren’t good for you<br />
<br />
24:47 Kaleen deferring<br />
<br />
24:54 Cody on personal responsibility and what you go out to look for, how you respond, etc. Being immersed by choice in the worldview you already have.<br />
<br />
26:21 Theo joins us<br />
<br />
26:41 Willow on seeking out information. Marketing online doesn’t create a perception, only magnifies what is there, so people are magnifying beliefs they already have<br />
<br />
27:23 Theo asking for clarification, people only being around people like them, feedback loops<br />
<br />
27:34 Kaleen with a bunch of Transhumanists hanging out<br />
<br />
27:39 Cody with emmersing yourself due to geographic location<br />
<br />
28:26 Theo clarifying<br />
<br />
28:36 Willow on loops, context versus content. Lack of serendipity because you’re calling on information instead of finding it, much easier to reinforce a preexisting belief instead of finding a new one<br />
<br />
29:18 Strand on information diets not being anything new, binging on library books; there has always been more information than we can consume, it’s how we parse the information; Dewy Decimal system is a crap way of ordering information; less hierarchical structures now but instead we have tag structures<br />
<br />
31:15 Sarah on social interactions based on seeking out information, now we can get it on our own so we lose that excuse<br />
<br />
31:59 Strand on the difference between information binge at the library v online is the immediacy of it<br />
<br />
32:25 Theo on RSS feeds, seeking out opposing viewpoints to his didn’t actually help his information view. Finding places that provide serendipity like Delicious popular<br />
<br />
34:04 Cody on needing sounding boards for his ideas, interaction with other ideas in order to spark new ideas, get conclusions<br />
<br />
35:15 Kaleen on serendipity and choice, these are things we’ve sought out, we get to pick our pattern. You can immerse yourself or you can seek out something new – there is a choice<br />
<br />
36:07 Willow on social interaction based on finding a search term rather than an answer to a question (response to Sarah)<br />
<br />
36:44 Libby on going shopping for friends, pulling from your different resources for best result<br />
<br />
36:46 Joined by Rob<br />
<br />
37:13 Willow on serendipity and we seek it out because we’re geeks. We’re the exception in seeking out new ways and things to learn<br />
<br />
37:45 Sarah “no such thing as a nonconsensual geek?”<br />
<br />
37:59 First Nick on 2 degrees of separation for information consumption. Of so many sites available, you link off of that, and maybe off of that, but that’s it. You don’t look beyond that. You choose your internet based on where you started<br />
<br />
39:03 Cody on deciding what you study allows you to go more in depth, MIT courses available online from past semesters. Then the issue is how quickly you can process, filtering out the extra stuff so you’re just getting the meat of what you want<br />
<br />
39:58 Libby on generating content, read a lot of content but also generate. Takes longer to generate one than to skim 700. “Are you growing your own food?”<br />
<br />
40:43 Cody on bringing new information to the table instead of recycling information that’s already out there<br />
<br />
40:53 Libby on doing things in real life to generate content for fake life. Self-marketing online “so that other people trust you as a real source of information”<br />
<br />
41:27 Theo on processing large volumes of information daily. Getting Things Done, skim first model. What are your processing methods?<br />
<br />
42:10 Kaleen on concentrating on modes of accessing rather than specifics – reading a long post, contemplate, etc. List of things to know without the internet, not have to use Google to understand something<br />
<br />
43:02 Cody on difficulty concentrating, multitabs to reference across things, inefficiency of bookmarking, taking information out of original source to put in own system. Atlantis research has a lot of material, needed to create a new way of organizing<br />
<br />
44:50 Sarah on Kaleen’s idea of not needing to know the information but just how to access it, becoming reference librarians. How do we talk to other people if we don’t actually know what we’re talking about?<br />
<br />
45:13 Willow on concept rather than facts. Following a process and the ideas behind it, but not necessarily the exact name or date<br />
<br />
45:53 Strand on keeping facts of paper as a tool<br />
<br />
46:02 Theo on amount of information available growing exponential, “pretty much all the hard sciences can be summed up in quantum mechanics plus game theory, you can talk pretty intelligently about things so long as the models hold up” (approximately). Finding smart people and listening to what they have to say makes him confident in his consumption of serendipity<br />
<br />
47:22 Cody on accessing information, becoming more than human on a spiritual side rather than mechanical/technical terms; taking on the attributes of the people around you, the local consciousness<br />
<br />
49:05 Kaleen on getting information from the ether, to be oldschool<br />
<br />
49:52 Bringing things to a close as we can’t debate for the sake of transcription, podcast<br />
<br />
50:40 end<br />
<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_BrainsH+ Elbow Brains2011-01-25T22:54:01Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '08/08/08 Information Diets : [http://freakangels.com/wcaudio/Seattle_8.8.8_H+_Discussion.mp3 Audio] 09/03/13 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Brain_Changes|Brain …'</p>
<hr />
<div>08/08/08 [[H%2B_Elbow_Information_Diets|Information Diets]] : [http://freakangels.com/wcaudio/Seattle_8.8.8_H+_Discussion.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
09/03/13 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Brain_Changes|Brain Changes]] : [http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=5168 Whitechapel Discussion] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20Brains1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Brains2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/03/27/09 [[H%2B_Elbow_Cheating|Cheating]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20Cheating1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Cheating2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/04/24 [[H%2B_Elbow_Attention|Attention]] : no audio<br />
<br />
09/04/13 [[H%2B_Elbow_Info_Diet_Focus_Group|Info Diet Focus Group]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20InfoDietRehash1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20InfoDietRehash2.mp3 Audio 2]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_BodiesH+ Elbow Bodies2011-01-25T22:48:40Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>08/09/19 [[H%2B_Elbow_Life_and_Youth_Extension|Life and Youth Extension]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/LifeExtension1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/LifeExtension2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
08/12/21 in Bloomington, IN to discuss [[H%2B_Elbow_gender_and_sexuality_online|Gender and Sexuality Online]] at the Runcible Spoon<br />
<br />
09/02/28 [[H%2B_Elbow_Bio_vs_Mech|Bio vs Mech]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20Biological%20and%20Mechanical.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Biological%20and%20Mechanical.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/03/27 [[H%2B_Elbow_Cheating|Cheating]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20Cheating1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Cheating2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
09/12/18 [[H%2B_Elbow_Industrial_Food_and_Nutrition|Industrial Food and Nutrition]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/food.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
See also: [[H%2B Elbow]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_CheatingH+ Elbow Cheating2011-01-24T21:48:17Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '[http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/jamais-cascio/open-future/me Creatives using nootropics] [http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/kids_dope_up_to_get_high_gtNeJJ7lzkwDFcPe…'</p>
<hr />
<div>[http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/jamais-cascio/open-future/me Creatives using nootropics]<br />
<br />
[http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/kids_dope_up_to_get_high_gtNeJJ7lzkwDFcPeEJ8zLJ Rich parents giving kids growth drugs]<br />
<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_Life_and_Youth_ExtensionH+ Elbow Life and Youth Extension2011-01-24T21:40:36Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '==Main Topics== *Issues of individual life extension versus available to all, who would chose it and why *We will have the tech, but we’ll also need the mental ability to handl…'</p>
<hr />
<div>==Main Topics==<br />
*Issues of individual life extension versus available to all, who would chose it and why<br />
*We will have the tech, but we’ll also need the mental ability to handle it<br />
*Difference between avoiding death and questing for life<br />
*Issues of natural selection, having children (timing, serial monogamy, reasoning, etc)<br />
*Longer lives through biological improvements, mechanical integration, overlap, etc<br />
*Sustainability: Nature, population density, mortality rates, closed systems<br />
*Cryonics, and social implications as well as mental; knowledge being temporally dependant<br />
*Life extension versus Youth Extension (mental and physical abilities)<br />
*Dedication of time, how having more time might (or might not) affect that<br />
*Perception of time and relationships is pulling away from a linear model<br />
<br />
==Introductions==<br />
Rob: researching a creative writing project<br />
<br />
Chris: into today’s topic<br />
<br />
Gabriel: general topic as a whole<br />
<br />
Lady: stumbled upon it<br />
<br />
Victor: into this topic for a long time<br />
<br />
Cameron: really good at procrastinating<br />
<br />
Brian: likes different people’s perspectives<br />
<br />
Sarah: here to spread illegal child-like joy<br />
<br />
Libby: has a problem, because she’s always around Bloo<br />
<br />
Kevin: fresh to the area<br />
<br />
Baron: enjoys interesting topics with interesting people<br />
<br />
==Minutes==<br />
1:38 Willow defers to someone else because she’s a cynic; “many who long for immortality don’t know what to do on a rainy day;” would like to go for as long as possible at this rate<br />
<br />
2:58 want it for yourself but not for anyone else<br />
<br />
3:00 don’t want it for self unless it’s available to everyone else; therapy not advancement<br />
<br />
3:18 people who don’t use what they have now will likely fade when they have more time; takes desire to do things in order to want to live longer; who deserves it isn’t an issue, people who don’t use that extra time will just fade away<br />
<br />
4:20 will it be distributed on will or on financial ability?<br />
<br />
4:41 living for a really long time develops a complex mental state, we’re not built to deal with everything around you falling apart; it’s a psycho-social issue, not necessarily the chemical-science-ability one; the issue is being willing to see cities die, etc<br />
<br />
6:04 major challenge is psychological<br />
<br />
6:10 Heinlan’s book with Lazarus Long, being bored because you’ve done everything<br />
<br />
6:37 we missed the dinosaurs, what would happen in another million years? Curious to see future<br />
<br />
7:17 we’re constantly surrounded by the fantastic, manage to make it commonplace; if you’re bored then you’re bored, it doesn’t matter how long you’re around<br />
<br />
8:07 so some people just aren’t going to bother<br />
<br />
8:13 who would raise their hands to die tomorrow?<br />
<br />
8:24 different death background, don’t necessarily *want* to die tomorrow, but others don’t necessarily fear it in the same way, not necessarily a good question<br />
<br />
9:08 if you could choose to die at any point, why would you chose tomorrow instead of hundreds of years in the future? Cancer kills 25%, Heart disease another 25%<br />
<br />
9:30 so is it avoiding death or questing for life?<br />
<br />
9:34 quest for life, we’re so much closer now to curing these issues than we were further in the past<br />
<br />
10:02 but something like prostate cancer will hit every male eventually; we’re yey close to curing x problem, given enough time; it’s not necessarily an issue of curing everything; the future is not magical fairy land, it’s a constant process<br />
<br />
11:04 what about the Singularity, and living through that?<br />
<br />
11:12 we’ll talk about the Singularity at another meeting<br />
<br />
Singularity digression<br />
<br />
13:55 living forever removes you from natural selection<br />
<br />
14:18 any system where we mess with it, if there are errors they tend to build up until they crush whatever’s going on; which is to say, it’s not living forever, it’s continuing to live<br />
<br />
14:47 all we’ve ever done is remove a cause of death, we can treat the symptoms; there’s an idea of a Wall of Death : chances of death do not grow exponentially as we have thought<br />
<br />
15:54 after you hit the late eighties your estimated life span actually increases<br />
<br />
16:07 we’re curing more causes of death, there will always be accidents which cause death or something like it; which I believe removes the psychological issue of death; a process of lengthening life, it’s not going to be our generation, it’s going to be generations down the road, each generation living longer and subsequently waiting longer to have children<br />
<br />
17:37 serial monogamy, not just one set of kids with one person<br />
<br />
17:53 is living preserving conscious memories? Because that determines what a cause of death is<br />
<br />
18:06 what is life? People who live through their children or books they wrote or whatever, different ways to describe immortality; what is you, and how do you preserve that?<br />
<br />
18:45 think it will be possible to upload in at least some vague form before we are dead<br />
<br />
18:51 so we have the tech now to add 10 years on to your life, and in that time tech comes out to add another 10<br />
<br />
19:05 but you’ve degraded in that time and it might not be applicable to you<br />
<br />
19:10 if you can add years faster than you’re degrading…<br />
<br />
19:20 the tech we come up with now, we have life extension tech now; the people that jump on these things pick up the alpha-release technology; these are notorious for being buggy, which is tough enough to deal with on a computer, but what about if you’re messing with biology? It’s not a smooth-grade curve, it’s a shuddering stepping curve while we sometimes scrap everything<br />
<br />
20:49 cochlear implants as an example of once you’re installed with hardware it’s not removable, which only allows for software upgrades, which can’t necessarily be planned for; are we advancing through hardware or biologically? Or overlap, of course<br />
<br />
22:07 used to be all about the hardware but hardware can’t learn as opposed to biological systems which adapt to surroundings<br />
<br />
22:55 but we have evolving software systems; we can match amoebas in evolving abilities, so when you take that into nanotechnology<br />
<br />
23:24 biology runs on proteins which are self-replicating, but building a chip is still incredibly difficult<br />
<br />
23:50 but we’re engineering biological things to create computery-type stuff; e-coli making plastic, bacterial processing, etc<br />
<br />
24:11 but then is it hardware or biology?<br />
<br />
24:15 there isn’t a difference<br />
<br />
24:32 population issues<br />
<br />
24:52 nature tends to deal with over population when it happens<br />
<br />
25:01 higher density cities also often have a lower mortality rate; death tends to be associated with poverty<br />
<br />
25:17 we haven’t hit max population density on this planet, but within a closed system it’s not sustainable<br />
<br />
25:46 but some places have a negative population growth, considered to go with a wellness of society<br />
<br />
26:13 but bacteria self-replicates every 30 seconds, there are different levels of population<br />
<br />
26:23 bacteria also stop when they don’t have room any more<br />
<br />
26:28 we’re also assuming this is a closed system, which it isn’t, we can go somewhere else<br />
<br />
26:44 which we should<br />
<br />
26:46 or when we have uploading<br />
<br />
27:04 cryonics is also a stop-gap thing<br />
<br />
27:16 cryonics have never worked<br />
<br />
you can freeze a dog and bring it back after three minutes<br />
<br />
yeah, three minutes.<br />
<br />
27:32 also the human factor; if there are already so many people on the planet, why would we bring them back?<br />
<br />
Culture shock, Transmet stuff<br />
<br />
28:02 even if there is social responsibility to bring someone back, that’s where the responsibility stops; more life or more of anything is not really going to change the fact that fresh fruit is better than frozen fruit<br />
<br />
28:33 reheating people for lunch<br />
<br />
digression<br />
<br />
29:25 great thinkers are defined by their point in time; temporily dependant<br />
<br />
digression<br />
<br />
30:02 '''end part 1'''<br />
<br />
0:00 life extension and youth extension<br />
<br />
0:11 what’s the difference?<br />
<br />
0:16 as you age, you become more decrepit; lose physical and mental abilities<br />
<br />
0:37 but true life extension is prolonging life in a way that is useful<br />
<br />
0:51 most of what has happened with life extension so far has not tacked on what one might consider youth<br />
<br />
1:25 telemetric limit, 24-28 year old point when reproduction of DNA<br />
<br />
1:54 cancer cells get around that<br />
<br />
2:03 defining your youth through telemetric abilities<br />
<br />
2:23 individual basis of when youth is<br />
<br />
2:36 a brilliant mind trapped in a useless body is useless<br />
<br />
Steven Hawking?<br />
<br />
Still has enough to get it out there<br />
<br />
Well what’s useless then?<br />
<br />
3:01 prone to separation of mind and body which is not necessarily true<br />
<br />
4:24 if you could adjust your chemistry, we have regenerative medicine now, can redo hormone levels<br />
<br />
5:10 mind and body aren’t separate, you can’t be an 80 year old man with a 13 year old’s hormones because those hormones radically affect psychological states; part of the reason older people have more control over themselves is they’re not awash in a tide of hormones<br />
<br />
5:48 idea of youth extension as a term for idea of able body and mind, which is very individual, idea is being able instead of degrading<br />
<br />
6:29 recreational drugs to recreate youth<br />
<br />
7:00 sensible use, people have figured out what they’re good at, strengthening that; from that ability they are able to quest after they really desire; Edison<br />
<br />
8:13 we have a separation of mind and body because we only have so much time to concentrate on each. What if time wasn’t such a restriction? When we have to chose between things, something loses; if we have the option to have enough time for everything, will we actually make the right choices?<br />
<br />
9:09 never enough time<br />
<br />
9:11 what are the economical factors? What happens if you have all the time in the world now? Are you going to punch in for a nine to five or will you take a vacation for a couple hundred years?<br />
<br />
9:43 probably will work the same way it does now. Some people want to work even if they don’t have to; people who want to be on permanent vacation are already trying to do that; don’t think it has to do with available time<br />
<br />
10:55 people who are not alienated from their jobs might enjoy working; issue of student loans; the economic and social systems we have now will evolve to encompass any extra time we have, unalienated labor will still be rare<br />
<br />
11:30 short frantic lives, so we make the most out of what we have in what time we have; new social systems emerging due to more time<br />
<br />
12:03 false assumption: we invent tools to save time, to extend lives, and yet our lives never seem to get less complicated or time consuming; there is no clean break between Now and Shiny Future; we have to change what we have to have the future we want<br />
<br />
12:58 if you have the short end of the stick now, you’re going to continue having it<br />
<br />
13:15 difficult to believe, Singularity, nanotech, AI; our problem in a few decades will be filling time<br />
<br />
13:34 with so much more time now than in the past we still live frantic lives<br />
<br />
13:47 slave to something different, but always a slave<br />
<br />
14:08 reality is always nonlinear, Singularity will bring completely new things, the systems we have now won’t exist; new beginnings, new science<br />
<br />
15:16 interesting idea, difficult to talk about until it’s here<br />
<br />
15:43 coping is what we do as humans, socializing is the issue<br />
<br />
16:00 Vengie? Did he say if the singularity arrived and we weren’t ready for, all we’d have is technological wealth but without value<br />
<br />
Singularity digression<br />
<br />
16:51 it’s not an issue of if we can do it, it’s if we want to<br />
<br />
17:16 you can plan for it too, live off planet, befriend people with similar views<br />
<br />
17:39 the longer we’re in our lives, the more expertise you can aquire, which means more is expected, which means more schooling is expected, etc<br />
<br />
18:00 the bar will be raised<br />
<br />
18:10 why cynical, not a lot is going to change<br />
<br />
18:33 very linear way of looking at it, with causality; what about new business models, we have the capacity to think about things differently; so what if the bar is raised for law school, what about a community of law<br />
<br />
19:20 unless we work actively things aren’t going to end up that way<br />
<br />
20:04 what about renewable and nonrenewable resources?<br />
<br />
20:12 well look at the sun<br />
<br />
Inefficient but possible; living twice as long means consuming twice as much<br />
<br />
21:33 we spend a lot of energy building things that destroy thing; pro genetic modification; soil sterilization example<br />
<br />
23:12 the meme of the rapture is so widespread that people don’t care; if people gave that up we’d be a lot more efficient<br />
<br />
23:32 in life extension there is an issue of time, people who believe time is linear in a vacuum, others believe it is based on the idea of change; time slow chamber<br />
<br />
digression<br />
<br />
26:26 life extension only wanted by people if the people they love can live longer as well<br />
<br />
27:12 only one person needed; not lonely, but super celebrated<br />
<br />
27:29 think that person would break<br />
<br />
27:55 many people can welcome people no matter what their age<br />
<br />
28:20 FBI report that the most destructive technology would be biogenertology, living so long<br />
<br />
28:53 that explains the FDA<br />
<br />
29:10 the cohort feeling is an interesting one, do you die off because the people around you are?<br />
<br />
29:35 time and energy put into bonding<br />
<br />
29:51 biggest psychological issues of life extension; self-selecting; deal with people dropping off; the people into life extension are going to get used to it<br />
<br />
31:11 why do people have kids?<br />
<br />
31:23 the longer people live, the less likely they are to have kids<br />
<br />
31:33 bigger separation between generations; acquired cultural disease, needs to be a connection through time scale<br />
<br />
32:12 we have a scale for when it’s right to have kids, it’s always changing; there is no point that you can say it’s always been this way<br />
<br />
32:51 the later you have kids, the longer you live<br />
<br />
33:28 which is the cause?<br />
<br />
33:39 not just the body, the mind must also grow; education is necessary for longevity<br />
<br />
34:31 with more education are fewer accidents<br />
<br />
34:43 but longest live species are trees<br />
<br />
35:07 end<br />
<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_BodiesH+ Elbow Bodies2011-01-24T21:35:00Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '9/19/08 Life and Youth Extension : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/LifeExtension1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/LifeExtension2.…'</p>
<hr />
<div>9/19/08 [[H%2B_Elbow_Life_and_Youth_Extension|Life and Youth Extension]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/LifeExtension1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/LifeExtension2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
12/21/08 in Bloomington, IN to discuss [[H%2B_Elbow_gender_and_sexuality_online|Gender and Sexuality Online]] at the Runcible Spoon<br />
<br />
2/28/09 [[H%2B_Elbow_Bio_vs_Mech|Bio vs Mech]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20Biological%20and%20Mechanical.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Biological%20and%20Mechanical.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
3/27/09 [[H%2B_Elbow_Cheating|Cheating]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/01%20Cheating1.mp3 Audio 1] , [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/02%20Cheating2.mp3 Audio 2]<br />
<br />
12/18/09 [[H%2B_Elbow_Industrial_Food_and_Nutrition|Industrial Food and Nutrition]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/food.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
See also: [[H%2B Elbow]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_SuperorganismsH+ Elbow Superorganisms2011-01-24T21:28:31Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '[http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/10/evidence_of_a_g.php Technium article] See also: H%2B Elbow'</p>
<hr />
<div>[http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/10/evidence_of_a_g.php Technium article]<br />
<br />
See also: [[H%2B Elbow]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_ElbowH+ Elbow2011-01-24T21:27:35Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>===What is H+?===<br />
<br />
===About H+ Elbow===<br />
An H+ resource maintained by [[Willow Brugh]]. <br />
<br />
===Articles===<br />
Awaiting resources.<br />
*[[Article Name 1]]<br />
*[[Article Name 2]]<br />
*[[And so on]]<br />
<br />
===Discussion Group===<br />
====proposed topics====<br />
*Erasing your past - next conversation<br />
*Sensies, avatars (real vs avatar)<br />
*Individual and connectedness<br />
*Taoism and Transhumanism<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Little_Brother|Little Brother/Sousveillance]] (civil disobedience and surveillance culture)<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Superorganisms|Superorganisms]]<br />
<br />
====past meetings====<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_General|General]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Bodies|Bodies]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Brains|Brains]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Interactions|Interactions]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Future|Potential Futures]]<br />
*[[discussion notes formatting]]<br />
<br />
===External Links===<br />
====Sociological / Legal Issues:====<br />
*[http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/IEETblog IEET]<br />
*[http://crnano.typepad.com/crnblog/ CRN]<br />
*[http://grinding.be/ grinding.be]<br />
====General Interest:====<br />
*[http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/index/ WTA's site]<br />
*[http://www.worldchanging.com/ Worldchanging]<br />
*[http://www.metaefficient.com/ Metaefficient]<br />
*[http://yudkowsky.net/ Eliezer Yudkowsky - writings on rationality and AI research]<br />
*[http://nickbostrom.com/ Nick Bostrom, Professor, Director, Future of Humanity Institute]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_Little_BrotherH+ Elbow Little Brother2011-01-24T21:20:49Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance Sousveillance on wikipedia]<br />
<br />
[http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/010123.html B'Tselem's Video Camera Distribution Project: A Non-violent Way to Fight Back]<br />
<br />
See also: [[H%2B Elbow]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_Little_BrotherH+ Elbow Little Brother2011-01-24T21:20:16Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance Sousveillance on wikipedia] [http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/010123.html B'Tselem's Video Camera Distribution Project: A Non-vi…'</p>
<hr />
<div>[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance Sousveillance on wikipedia]<br />
<br />
[http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/010123.html B'Tselem's Video Camera Distribution Project: A Non-violent Way to Fight Back]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_ElbowH+ Elbow2011-01-24T21:17:48Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>===What is H+?===<br />
<br />
===About H+ Elbow===<br />
An H+ resource maintained by [[Willow Brugh]]. <br />
<br />
===Articles===<br />
Awaiting resources.<br />
*[[Article Name 1]]<br />
*[[Article Name 2]]<br />
*[[And so on]]<br />
<br />
===Discussion Group===<br />
====proposed topics====<br />
*Erasing your past - next conversation<br />
*Sensies, avatars (real vs avatar)<br />
*Individual and connectedness<br />
*Taoism and Transhumanism<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Little_Brother|Little Brother]] (civil disobedience and surveillance culture)<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Wetware|Wetware]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Superorganisms|Superorganisms]]<br />
<br />
====past meetings====<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_General|General]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Bodies|Bodies]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Brains|Brains]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Interactions|Interactions]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Future|Potential Futures]]<br />
*[[discussion notes formatting]]<br />
<br />
===External Links===<br />
====Sociological / Legal Issues:====<br />
*[http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/IEETblog IEET]<br />
*[http://crnano.typepad.com/crnblog/ CRN]<br />
*[http://grinding.be/ grinding.be]<br />
====General Interest:====<br />
*[http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/index/ WTA's site]<br />
*[http://www.worldchanging.com/ Worldchanging]<br />
*[http://www.metaefficient.com/ Metaefficient]<br />
*[http://yudkowsky.net/ Eliezer Yudkowsky - writings on rationality and AI research]<br />
*[http://nickbostrom.com/ Nick Bostrom, Professor, Director, Future of Humanity Institute]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_GeneralH+ Elbow General2011-01-24T21:12:10Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>2009/07/10 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Whatis|What Is Transhumanism?]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/whatishplus.mp3 Recovered Audio!]<br />
<br />
2009/10/22 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Semantics|Semantics]]<br />
<br />
2009/10/23 : chat : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/chat.mp3 Audio] : in which we discuss potential future topics<br />
<br />
2009/11/20 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Music|Music]] : Harlen led on digital versus analog, impersonal and personal instruments : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/Music.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
2010/09/03 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Spirituality|Spirituality]] : Lion and Joshua talk about spirituality, religion, and transhumanism.<br />
<br />
See also: [[H%2B Elbow]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_GeneralH+ Elbow General2011-01-24T21:11:40Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>2009/07/10 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Whatis|What Is Transhumanism?]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/whatishplus.mp3 Recovered Audio!]<br />
<br />
2009/10/22 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Semantics|Semantics]]<br />
<br />
2009/10/23 : chat : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/chat.mp3 Audio] : in which we discuss potential future topics<br />
<br />
2009/11/20 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Music|Music]] : Harlen led on digital versus analog, impersonal and personal instruments : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/Music.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
2010/09/03 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Spirituality|Spirituality]] : Lion and Joshua talk about spirituality, religion, and transhumanism.<br />
<br />
[[Category:H%2B]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_WhatisH+ Elbow Whatis2011-01-24T21:09:47Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>==What is Transhumanism?==<br />
*difference between what is human and personhood<br />
*anything that hasn't happened yet is transhuman<br />
<br />
==Ants and People==<br />
*individual ants are inconsequential, but the whole is a super organism, seems intelligent<br />
*Willow argues that individual humans are inconsequential in the same way, to much ado<br />
<br />
==Consciousness==<br />
<br />
==What does it mean to be a part of this group?==<br />
*why do we do this instead of just what we can do? normative ethics<br />
*changing the concentration of what we care about<br />
*can't think in a vacuum<br />
*have we renounced our heritage of violence in exchange for something less detrimental<br />
<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]<br />
==See Also:==<br />
[[H%2B_Elbow_Semantics]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_SemanticsH+ Elbow Semantics2011-01-24T21:09:06Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Agenda: ==<br />
*H+ discussion group<br />
*Jigsaw<br />
*How we do discussion group<br />
*Introductions<br />
<br />
== Introductions ==<br />
*Kevin - here to meet nice people<br />
*Rob - listen and make ice cream<br />
*Budi - here to be educated<br />
*Arlan - nice to come into this group and have a quick discussion about everything from music and new age ideals to findings of interconnectivity<br />
*Jay / Zeb - organizer of another meetup group about Taoism<br />
*Li - here to get other people's ideas and input<br />
*Trevor - here because the idea of collective intelligence turns me on<br />
*Ryan - writing software for a number of years, here to find like minded individuals who don't just study algorithm<br />
*Strand - into the discussion<br />
*Willow - <br />
<br />
== Discussion ==<br />
wiki definition of semantics<br />
<br />
=== What do you want to cover today? ===<br />
*Rob - singularity, relationship of h+ to humanism<br />
*Budi - transhumanism and maker society; what transhumanism is<br />
*Arlan - resiliance, how a human can be more and more resiliant; link to real world application<br />
*Jay - FM230 - RU a Transhuman<br />
*Li - cybernetics, bolidy and menal extensions, what technical backgrounds we have / what we're working on<br />
*Trevor - pass for now<br />
*Ryan - adding color to it, to focus on AI<br />
*Strand - not adding anything<br />
*Kevin - religion, is it good to make a religion out of it; open source<br />
*Trevor - what do we mean by consciousness and what we mean by that?<br />
<br />
*Traditional versus transitory<br />
<br />
*Application workshop<br />
<br />
=== What transhumanism is: ===<br />
*Willow's overview<br />
*Kevin - Taking what mother nature gave us and saying that's not good enough<br />
*general response - that's just technology<br />
*Arlan - soul, mind, process<br />
*Li - technology, but also needs the tech to influence the body; feedback loop so tech isn't just a tool<br />
*Trevor - not just body, but chassis that carries your consciousness<br />
*Difference between Harraway and cybernaticuns<br />
*Budi - difference between transhuman and post human?<br />
*Li - comes from human (can be traced back), but no longer human<br />
*Budi - android is post human?<br />
*Li - I came from a human society, can trace back. AI develops more on its own than through hman input<br />
*Jay - longevity of life as a part of it?<br />
*Kevin - AI goes in its own direction - like friendly AI, if you don't include that part<br />
*Willow - not just enhancing, but altering<br />
*Arlan - adding something foreign to our bodies to do something better, but to actually do something different<br />
*Rob - so an airplane is transhuman?<br />
*Li - even if you just add powers to human, does that make them post human?<br />
<br />
=== What is post human, then? ===<br />
*Budi - able to transcend human form into something else; replacing parts is not transcending<br />
*Arlan - question of the internet; death of your internet being after you die; if I'm a being I want to live forever, some form of immortality<br />
*Jay - world peace; spiritual or social transcendence<br />
*Li - media does a good job of showing what H+ can do. Like Neo can do anything, inside the Matrix is post human, what happens if he dies within the real world but continues to exist in the Matrix? What about ressurecting someone from their memories? Existing in a computer, so can teleport, fragment experience, etc<br />
*Trevor - cautious definition as seperation of consciousness from necessary biological form (you no longer require it, but can still use it). <br />
*Ryan - I think of transitory; something that isn't biological but scalable. Someting you can put in your brain where you have exact same output but more efficient<br />
*Strand - I don't know what post human is. My working definition of what makes someone human is the ability to tell stories. So post human would be the inability to create cohesive stories<br />
*Kevin - not so much as just transcending your body, but also transcending the laws of reality (not having to dedicate years to study), instant learning, manifestation of desires<br />
*Rob - humans are a species, once a decendant of ours cannot reproduce with humans, it is post human<br />
*Strand - biological reporduction? What about memetic organisms? Like an AI reproducing with the ideas it interacts with<br />
*Rob - would that still be human? I don't know. Not a biological organism.<br />
<br />
=== What is human? ===<br />
*Arlan - human is, at its lowest form, an organism that has cells that has offshoots, resonates with some things but not with others. Mind transitioning us to the future in a healthy way, allows us some art, some capabilities of interaction; huge condition with it<br />
*Jay - Teilhard De Chardan saw evolution going to ULTRAHUMAN, which is sort of like transhuman; transcending the whole earth, the omega point. Being terrestrial beings. Being human is being an agent of change towards the ultra human<br />
*Li - not so much about being human, but about Rob's point on offspring. What if you're infertile?<br />
*Rob - a neutered dog is still a dog<br />
*Li - go with a genetic definition of human. Do artificial insemination stuff; hard to have a boundary because we're already incorporating a lot of peripheries to our being. There hasn't been a time that we haven't had external things<br />
*Willow - external things including social things<br />
*Rob - and the written word<br />
*Li - so yes, genetic thing but also external objects<br />
*Trevor - not possible to define one person as human due to glitches. But HUMANITY yes. Potential to consider its place in the universe and guide its own future. <br />
*Arlan - some people would argue with you, everyone is perfect just different needs associated with each<br />
*Ryan - being hman is the summation of all the context that comes from all human sensory input - theory I'm toying with right now is that humans are deterministic, how everything interacts with everything else<br />
*Strand - pattern finding, tool usage, story telling, domesticate animals/breeding<br />
*Kevin - need input from everyone. Human is an adjective; doesn't apply to people like Hitler; community and relationships<br />
*Rob - avoid genetic definition; universal human rights doesn't apply to animals, we have concepts of right and wrong, ethics; rights are a mutual agreement, agree that we need to protect animals<br />
*Budi - human is a specific strand of DNA; satisfy our own needs and wants but desire to be better; also like Strand's definition of process<br />
*Willow - standard deviations<br />
*Trevor - like to get away from social behaviors as being human; girl they found in a cage was still human<br />
*Kevin - biology determines our social as well; <br />
*Strand - humanity is the source of most of my anxiety<br />
*Ryan - even in small microcasm, still creating own language<br />
<br />
*Rob - Sam Harris and how ethics can be based on science - values being based on improving experience of conscious beings; Humanism, our humanity is the source of our values<br />
*Arlan - master storyline <br />
<br />
== Next topic requests: ==<br />
*Kevin - Religion<br />
*Rob - biotech, particiularly in food<br />
*Arlan - whatever the magazine covers<br />
*Jay - longevity<br />
*Trevor - transhumanism in media (news, games, fiction, tv, etc)<br />
*Ryan - brain connection interface<br />
*Strand - practical problems of space travel<br />
*Kevin - sexuality<br />
*Budi - transfer consciousness<br />
*Singularity<br />
<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_SemanticsH+ Elbow Semantics2011-01-24T21:08:12Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '== Agenda: == *H+ discussion group *Jigsaw *How we do discussion group *Introductions == Introductions == *Kevin - here to meet nice people *Rob - listen and make ice cream *Bud…'</p>
<hr />
<div>== Agenda: ==<br />
*H+ discussion group<br />
*Jigsaw<br />
*How we do discussion group<br />
*Introductions<br />
<br />
== Introductions ==<br />
*Kevin - here to meet nice people<br />
*Rob - listen and make ice cream<br />
*Budi - here to be educated<br />
*Arlan - nice to come into this group and have a quick discussion about everything from music and new age ideals to findings of interconnectivity<br />
*Jay / Zeb - organizer of another meetup group about Taoism<br />
*Li - here to get other people's ideas and input<br />
*Trevor - here because the idea of collective intelligence turns me on<br />
*Ryan - writing software for a number of years, here to find like minded individuals who don't just study algorithm<br />
*Strand - into the discussion<br />
*Willow - <br />
<br />
== Discussion ==<br />
wiki definition of semantics<br />
<br />
== What do you want to cover today? ==<br />
*Rob - singularity, relationship of h+ to humanism<br />
*Budi - transhumanism and maker society; what transhumanism is<br />
*Arlan - resiliance, how a human can be more and more resiliant; link to real world application<br />
*Jay - FM230 - RU a Transhuman<br />
*Li - cybernetics, bolidy and menal extensions, what technical backgrounds we have / what we're working on<br />
*Trevor - pass for now<br />
*Ryan - adding color to it, to focus on AI<br />
*Strand - not adding anything<br />
*Kevin - religion, is it good to make a religion out of it; open source<br />
*Trevor - what do we mean by consciousness and what we mean by that?<br />
<br />
*Traditional versus transitory<br />
<br />
*Application workshop<br />
<br />
== What transhumanism is: ==<br />
*Willow's overview<br />
*Kevin - Taking what mother nature gave us and saying that's not good enough<br />
*general response - that's just technology<br />
*Arlan - soul, mind, process<br />
*Li - technology, but also needs the tech to influence the body; feedback loop so tech isn't just a tool<br />
*Trevor - not just body, but chassis that carries your consciousness<br />
*Difference between Harraway and cybernaticuns<br />
*Budi - difference between transhuman and post human?<br />
*Li - comes from human (can be traced back), but no longer human<br />
*Budi - android is post human?<br />
*Li - I came from a human society, can trace back. AI develops more on its own than through hman input<br />
*Jay - longevity of life as a part of it?<br />
*Kevin - AI goes in its own direction - like friendly AI, if you don't include that part<br />
*Willow - not just enhancing, but altering<br />
*Arlan - adding something foreign to our bodies to do something better, but to actually do something different<br />
*Rob - so an airplane is transhuman?<br />
*Li - even if you just add powers to human, does that make them post human?<br />
<br />
== What is post human, then? ==<br />
*Budi - able to transcend human form into something else; replacing parts is not transcending<br />
*Arlan - question of the internet; death of your internet being after you die; if I'm a being I want to live forever, some form of immortality<br />
*Jay - world peace; spiritual or social transcendence<br />
*Li - media does a good job of showing what H+ can do. Like Neo can do anything, inside the Matrix is post human, what happens if he dies within the real world but continues to exist in the Matrix? What about ressurecting someone from their memories? Existing in a computer, so can teleport, fragment experience, etc<br />
*Trevor - cautious definition as seperation of consciousness from necessary biological form (you no longer require it, but can still use it). <br />
*Ryan - I think of transitory; something that isn't biological but scalable. Someting you can put in your brain where you have exact same output but more efficient<br />
*Strand - I don't know what post human is. My working definition of what makes someone human is the ability to tell stories. So post human would be the inability to create cohesive stories<br />
*Kevin - not so much as just transcending your body, but also transcending the laws of reality (not having to dedicate years to study), instant learning, manifestation of desires<br />
*Rob - humans are a species, once a decendant of ours cannot reproduce with humans, it is post human<br />
*Strand - biological reporduction? What about memetic organisms? Like an AI reproducing with the ideas it interacts with<br />
*Rob - would that still be human? I don't know. Not a biological organism.<br />
<br />
== What is human? ==<br />
*Arlan - human is, at its lowest form, an organism that has cells that has offshoots, resonates with some things but not with others. Mind transitioning us to the future in a healthy way, allows us some art, some capabilities of interaction; huge condition with it<br />
*Jay - Teilhard De Chardan saw evolution going to ULTRAHUMAN, which is sort of like transhuman; transcending the whole earth, the omega point. Being terrestrial beings. Being human is being an agent of change towards the ultra human<br />
*Li - not so much about being human, but about Rob's point on offspring. What if you're infertile?<br />
*Rob - a neutered dog is still a dog<br />
*Li - go with a genetic definition of human. Do artificial insemination stuff; hard to have a boundary because we're already incorporating a lot of peripheries to our being. There hasn't been a time that we haven't had external things<br />
*Willow - external things including social things<br />
*Rob - and the written word<br />
*Li - so yes, genetic thing but also external objects<br />
*Trevor - not possible to define one person as human due to glitches. But HUMANITY yes. Potential to consider its place in the universe and guide its own future. <br />
*Arlan - some people would argue with you, everyone is perfect just different needs associated with each<br />
*Ryan - being hman is the summation of all the context that comes from all human sensory input - theory I'm toying with right now is that humans are deterministic, how everything interacts with everything else<br />
*Strand - pattern finding, tool usage, story telling, domesticate animals/breeding<br />
*Kevin - need input from everyone. Human is an adjective; doesn't apply to people like Hitler; community and relationships<br />
*Rob - avoid genetic definition; universal human rights doesn't apply to animals, we have concepts of right and wrong, ethics; rights are a mutual agreement, agree that we need to protect animals<br />
*Budi - human is a specific strand of DNA; satisfy our own needs and wants but desire to be better; also like Strand's definition of process<br />
*Willow - standard deviations<br />
*Trevor - like to get away from social behaviors as being human; girl they found in a cage was still human<br />
*Kevin - biology determines our social as well; <br />
*Strand - humanity is the source of most of my anxiety<br />
*Ryan - even in small microcasm, still creating own language<br />
<br />
*Rob - Sam Harris and how ethics can be based on science - values being based on improving experience of conscious beings; Humanism, our humanity is the source of our values<br />
*Arlan - master storyline <br />
<br />
== Next topic requests: ==<br />
*Kevin - Religion<br />
*Rob - biotech, particiularly in food<br />
*Arlan - whatever the magazine covers<br />
*Jay - longevity<br />
*Trevor - transhumanism in media (news, games, fiction, tv, etc)<br />
*Ryan - brain connection interface<br />
*Strand - practical problems of space travel<br />
*Kevin - sexuality<br />
*Budi - transfer consciousness<br />
*Singularity<br />
<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_WhatisH+ Elbow Whatis2011-01-24T21:07:10Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '==What is Transhumanism?== *difference between what is human and personhood *anything that hasn't happened yet is transhuman ==Ants and People== *individual ants are inconsequen…'</p>
<hr />
<div>==What is Transhumanism?==<br />
*difference between what is human and personhood<br />
*anything that hasn't happened yet is transhuman<br />
<br />
==Ants and People==<br />
*individual ants are inconsequential, but the whole is a super organism, seems intelligent<br />
*Willow argues that individual humans are inconsequential in the same way, to much ado<br />
<br />
==Consciousness==<br />
<br />
==What does it mean to be a part of this group?==<br />
*why do we do this instead of just what we can do? normative ethics<br />
*changing the concentration of what we care about<br />
*can't think in a vacuum<br />
*have we renounced our heritage of violence in exchange for something less detrimental<br />
<br />
[[Category:H%2B Elbow Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_GeneralH+ Elbow General2011-01-24T21:05:00Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>2009/07/10 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Whatis|What Is Transhumanism?]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/whatishplus.mp3 Recovered Audio!]<br />
<br />
2009/10/22 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Semantics|Semantics]]<br />
<br />
2009/10/23 : [[H%2B_Elbow_chat|chat]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/chat.mp3 Audio] : in which we discuss [http://st.imul.us/index.php?title=Requests_for_Future_Topics Potential Future Topics]<br />
<br />
2009/11/20 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Music|Music]] : Harlen led on digital versus analog, impersonal and personal instruments : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/Music.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
2010/09/03 : [[H%2B_Elbow_Spirituality|Spirituality]] : Lion and Joshua talk about spirituality, religion, and transhumanism.</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_Elbow_GeneralH+ Elbow General2011-01-24T21:03:32Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '2009/07/10 : What Is Transhumanism? : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/whatishplus.mp3 Recovered Audio!] 2009/10/22 : Semantics 2009/10/23 : chat : [http://bl00cyb.org/…'</p>
<hr />
<div>2009/07/10 : [[What Is Transhumanism?]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/whatishplus.mp3 Recovered Audio!]<br />
<br />
2009/10/22 : [[Semantics]]<br />
<br />
2009/10/23 : [[chat]] : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/chat.mp3 Audio] : in which we discuss [http://st.imul.us/index.php?title=Requests_for_Future_Topics Potential Future Topics]<br />
<br />
2009/11/20 : [[Music]] : Harlen led on digital versus analog, impersonal and personal instruments : [http://bl00cyb.org/podcasts/Music.mp3 Audio]<br />
<br />
2010/09/03 : [[Spirituality]] : Lion and Joshua talk about spirituality, religion, and transhumanism.</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_ElbowH+ Elbow2011-01-24T20:59:46Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>===What is H+?===<br />
<br />
===About H+ Elbow===<br />
An H+ resource maintained by [[Willow Brugh]]. <br />
<br />
===Articles===<br />
Awaiting resources.<br />
*[[Article Name 1]]<br />
*[[Article Name 2]]<br />
*[[And so on]]<br />
<br />
===Discussion Group===<br />
====proposed topics====<br />
*Erasing your past - next conversation<br />
*Sensies, avatars (real vs avatar)<br />
*Individual and connectedness<br />
<br />
====past meetings====<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_General|General]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Bodies|Bodies]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Brains|Brains]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Interactions|Interactions]]<br />
*[[H%2B_Elbow_Future|Potential Futures]]<br />
*[[discussion notes formatting]]<br />
<br />
===External Links===<br />
====Sociological / Legal Issues:====<br />
*[http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/IEETblog IEET]<br />
*[http://crnano.typepad.com/crnblog/ CRN]<br />
*[http://grinding.be/ grinding.be]<br />
====General Interest:====<br />
*[http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/index/ WTA's site]<br />
*[http://www.worldchanging.com/ Worldchanging]<br />
*[http://www.metaefficient.com/ Metaefficient]<br />
*[http://yudkowsky.net/ Eliezer Yudkowsky - writings on rationality and AI research]<br />
*[http://nickbostrom.com/ Nick Bostrom, Professor, Director, Future of Humanity Institute]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/Discussion_notes_formattingDiscussion notes formatting2010-12-17T19:16:11Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div><pre>==Discussion==<br />
*topic<br />
*date/time<br />
*location<br />
*presenter<br />
*moderator<br />
*summary<br />
<br />
==Agenda==<br />
<br />
==Introductions==<br />
<br />
==Discussion==<br />
<br />
==Wrap-Up==<br />
<br />
==Relevant Links==<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
*[[H+ Elbow]]<br />
*[[Category:H+ Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/Discussion_notes_formattingDiscussion notes formatting2010-12-17T19:15:22Z<p>Willowbl00: Created page with '<pre>==Discussion== *topic *date *location *presenter *moderator ==Agenda== ==Introductions== ==Discussion== ==Wrap-Up== ==Relevant Links== ==See Also== *H+ Elbow *[[Ca…'</p>
<hr />
<div><pre>==Discussion==<br />
*topic<br />
*date<br />
*location<br />
*presenter<br />
*moderator<br />
<br />
==Agenda==<br />
<br />
==Introductions==<br />
<br />
==Discussion==<br />
<br />
==Wrap-Up==<br />
<br />
==Relevant Links==<br />
<br />
==See Also==<br />
*[[H+ Elbow]]<br />
*[[Category:H+ Meeting Notes]]</div>Willowbl00http://cyborganthropology.com/H%2B_ElbowH+ Elbow2010-12-17T19:09:55Z<p>Willowbl00: </p>
<hr />
<div>===What is H+?===<br />
<br />
===About H+ Elbow===<br />
An H+ resource maintained by [[Willow Brugh]]. <br />
<br />
===Articles===<br />
Awaiting resources.<br />
*[[Article Name 1]]<br />
*[[Article Name 2]]<br />
*[[And so on]]<br />
<br />
===Discussion Group Notes===<br />
Audio from previous meetings can be found on the [http://st.imul.us/index.php?title=Stimulus_Wiki:Current_events st.imul.us wiki].<br />
*[[date topic]]<br />
*[[date topic]]<br />
*[[discussion notes formatting]]<br />
<br />
===External Links===<br />
====Sociological / Legal Issues:====<br />
*[http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/IEETblog IEET]<br />
*[http://crnano.typepad.com/crnblog/ CRN]<br />
*[http://grinding.be/ grinding.be]<br />
====General Interest:====<br />
*[http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/index/ WTA's site]<br />
*[http://www.worldchanging.com/ Worldchanging]<br />
*[http://www.metaefficient.com/ Metaefficient]<br />
*[http://yudkowsky.net/ Eliezer Yudkowsky - writings on rationality and AI research]<br />
*[http://nickbostrom.com/ Nick Bostrom, Professor, Director, Future of Humanity Institute]</div>Willowbl00